Driver's license test failed after student used Tesla regen braking system

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43349/dmv-flunks-student-driver-for-using-teslas-regen-brakes

I have no problem with the instructor flunking them for this, but it seems kinda crappy to not tell the kid till after.

Thoughts?

Don't use a Tesla for your driver's test .

Im kind of stuck and can be tipped either way on this one...

Being that it is a "General motor vehicle" license, not an "electric car" license, I can understand the fail. Thought being, what if the driver is somewhere and needs to drive someone else's car home/somewhere...will they smash into the back of another vehicle waiting for the car to baby sit his driving? While electric cars are becoming more prolific everyday, we aren't at a place where its guaranteed you'll never drive a non electric car in your lifetime. 

The other side of it is, adaptation...these times are a changing. 

Last, a 16 year old taking a driving test in a Tesla. Perhaps that's where I struggle the most. I feel like starting in a vehicle like that is creating very unaware drivers that feel they don't need to pay attention to "all the small things". I feel that it allows distracted driving when you need to be learning the ins and outs of traffic flow, follow distance, brake distance changes in rain. Ill get off my soap box now before I spiral with todays youth :)

Not sure I understand the fail. If the DMV wants the driver to not use regen, they need to inform the driver at the beginning of the test. The driver proved his ability to drive his vehicle. That's what they should be testing, not what kind of braking the vehicle uses. 

I would have expected this kind of news out of South Carolina, not California. 

Toyman! said:

I would have expected this kind of news out of South Carolina, not California. 

Heh.  Our DMV is just as much of a useless government bureaucracy as DMVs anywhere. :)  Probably just a case of the first time it had happened, the test evaluator had never seen a Tesla being used in that fashion before, and didn't know what to make of it.  Not telling someone about what they're losing points for until the test is over is standard practice though.

As for the teen taking the test in a Tesla, I suspect it was just a case of using Mom's car.  I'm sure there are parents around here who have bought Teslas for their kids, but I don't think it's common.

Uh, guys? They reversed the decision and the kid ended up passing. It was a case of one instructor not being familiar with EVs, and the situation was corrected.

This is a non-story.

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

I disagree.  Even if they reversed the decision driver's aids that near completely eliminate driver's input is something to discuss.  Especially on a driver's test.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Also the idea that testers aren't familiar with modern cars seems to be of concern. 

Regenerative braking is not a driver aid. It's basically engine braking. It still requires driver input, but it's not the same input as moving your foot over to a different pedal. You move the accelerator pedal into a position where the motor is not proving enough power to maintain speed.

If you drive a manual transmission car, you probably use the same technique quite frequently. The only difference is that you generally have to engage the friction brakes to come to a full stop and you don't get any of the fuel back in your tank. 

Toyman! said:I would have expected this kind of news out of South Carolina, not California. 

Ehh out of all the states I have lived, South Carolina has the best dmv.  
 

worst was Connecticut. Second best was Washington state. 

Glad it is a non story now. This would be like failing a kid in the 50's for not properly using the clutch when one of them fancy self shifting cars was used on the drivers test...

note: I didn't bother to look up when automatics became ubiquitous but the point is the same. When I got my CDL drivers used to make fun of automatic truck drivers calling them "2 peddlers", now a lot of commercial trucks are automatic. 

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

I have no complaints about our DMV, but I would expect California to be more accepting of electric cars than we are. I'm surprised they dont have a procedure for testing in them. 

Do all EV operate like a Tesla? Or are some of the dynamics Tesla specific?

This far into it, I think it would be a one off.  We have had regen braking for years now, this can't be the first situation. I blame the person grading the test and no one else. 

I've seen this story posted and reposted by all the automotive journalism clickbait sites in my Google news feed over the past week or so.

Never once have I clicked into it because it just seems so clickbaity.

I wonder how many kids in the same state on the same day took the test in a similar Tesla using the feature the same way and passed no problem? This feels like much ado about nothing.

I don't know how California works, but in Ohio the examiner is specifically not allowed to talk to you once the test has started other than to give driving directions (turn here, park there, etc).

Was kind of interesting as during my test, I stopped at a stop sign, and someone behind me did the most amazingly shiny-happy move ever and blew around me to make a right turn.  The instructor said "...Wow."  I made no comment, lest my talking cause me to lose points on the test

According to my brother and sister-in-law, they should be testing the Teslas!  They've got the self-driving software on their Y and they say it's really good on the highway, but on surface streets one of its favorite tricks is to throw the car into right- or left-hand turn with a fair amount of speed and then, right about at the apex of the turn, decides that its in over its head and reverts control to the humans.

But, related to the story, it is worth considering what types of driver aids should or should not be enabled for a driving test.  While regen braking isn't an aide per se, it sounds like the car was maybe in single pedal mode where releasing the accelerator would engage the brakes on behalf of the driver.  Should there be certain electronics that have to be defeated in order to prove that you can drive?

I'm the wrong person to ask on that, because when I'm somewhat-benevolent dictator of the world, all driving tests will be performed in a car with non-power steering, non-assisted brakes, and manual transmissions.  The test will involve skidpads, sprinklers, snow, ice, and simulating five children crammed in the back seat screaming at you and each other.  There will also be a breakdown on the trip that you'll need to solve in order to continue.  And that test will be repeated every 5 years, minium.

In reply to wae :

It's definitely one of those questions that might need to be asked, sooner than later.

Grumman F9F Cougar said:

Do all EV operate like a Tesla? Or are some of the dynamics Tesla specific?

The one-pedal driving is available on just about every EV. It's  common enough that I'd call it a characteristic.

Actual driver's aids may vary and are not tied to the mode of propulsion, such as lane departure, stability control and ABS. 

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

I disagree.  Even if they reversed the decision driver's aids that near completely eliminate driver's input is something to discuss.  Especially on a driver's test.

Agreed. Even my low-tech Fusion can parallel park itself with the push of a button, and that's always been a traditional part of a driving test. But, as Keith points out, the issue in this case was regenerative braking, not driver aids.

In reply to wae :

I support this...all of it. We either need to have fully analog (by analog, I mean get rid of nany features, like lane departure, don't rear end someone feature, stability control etc making you think you can pitch a car into a corner and youll come out the other side) cars where the driver dictates ALL the actions of the car, or full auto driving. This grey area of in between scares the hell out of me. The amount of people I see with both hands on the phone, texting, not looking at the road and thinking "oh, my lane departure will take care me, or auto stopping so I don't smash into someone, Ill just check out". There isn't a singular topic someone can come up with that raises my blood pressure more than distracted driving. 

I used to ride and race bicycles all over the country, training on the road up to 400 miles a week. about 10-ish years ago I had to make a decision to risk my life everyday I trained, or stop. So I stopped. When someone in an Escalade had two devices in their hands, crossing the yellow line heading right for me then noticing just in time to not kill me...that was it. Pay attention to the GD road and what you're doing, or get a driver.  Driving is what you're doing, not other things while your car takes you someplace. 

Rant over, perhaps I should move this to the "rant of the day" thread, sorry for the hijack. 

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Agreed. Even my low-tech Fusion can parallel park itself with the push of a button, and that's always been a traditional part of a driving test. But, as Keith points out, the issue in this case was regenerative braking, not driver aids.

I took my driving test at the end of the last millennium and parallel parking was not a required skill. Just had to demonstrate that I could back up in a strait line.

Spent a bunch of time practicing parallel parking too because I was learning to drive in an extra-long pickup truck (F-150 with extended cab and full size bed).

Keith Tanner said:

Grumman F9F Cougar said:

Do all EV operate like a Tesla? Or are some of the dynamics Tesla specific?

The one-pedal driving is available on just about every EV. It's  common enough that I'd call it a characteristic.

Actual driver's aids may vary and are not tied to the mode of propulsion, such as lane departure, stability control and ABS. 

I was wondering, because if there are Tesla specific quirks, or quirks in any/all vehicles, why should an instructor have intimate knowledge or all of them?

In reply to Grumman F9F Cougar :

Quirks for specific vehicles, no. Modes of operation that are characteristic of an entire vehicle type, yes. 

True. Teslas aren't exactly new.