Hey gang, this weekend my wife and I went camping for the first time this year in our new to us truck and camper. I have been dissatisfied with the performance of our 90's cooler, and would like to replace it with something more advanced. Our camper has a propane bottle but no fridge, one option is retrofitting a 3 way fridge into the camper, but that is alot of work.
What is the go to method for keeping food cold for 3+ days, ideally not utilizing a block of ice.
One of these or something similar. I have the 52 qt and the 26 qt. They are awesome and 1/4 the price of a Yeti.
Edit: Looks like the image didn't stick. Trying again. This is a Ozark Trail 52
I almost wish I hadn't sold my truck camper and truck. It was a lot of fun and would go places my Class A won't.
I can't see what Toyman posted, but I'm pretty sure cooler technology has not changed since the '90s. Its just a big fat chunk of polystyrene for insulation sandwiched between material to keep it from coming apart. Maybe they use polyurethane foam in some now (better R value), or a deeper cross section?
One thing you can do instead of ice is use saltwater icepacks (easy to DIY) to get a lower freezing point for the water (and thus more cooling capacity). But for 3 days it might still be a stretch, not sure.
Propane fridges are just assisted coolers, really. They can only manage about a 40f delta. Fine when it's 70F, not so good at 100. They also draw massive power on 12v. Enough that it's not really an option I burned up a golf cart power solenoid on mine.
I yanked the three way out of the VW and stuffed in a Truckfridge. It's a proper compressor refrigerator that runs off 12v exclusively. Big, big improvement in temperature with much less power draw. I also put a 100w solar panel on the roof so now we can make ice with the sun!
Before the Truckfridge, we used a standard Big White Cooler. Worked pretty well but it was low on the convenience scale.
Oh, and if we're doing pictures...
We started using dry ice when camping, it basically keeps the regular ice frozen longer.
The 'new' cooler technology is vacuum flasks, of course not new, but pretty cheap these days. Not sure they actually have cooler sized ones.
I know some sailors have made them for their ocean cruiser boats.
Heat can't xfer in a vacuum, so the ultimate in insulation.
Liquid Nitrogen tanks..I actually have one, but they are thousands of dollars new. Here is a vacuum box, only $2k, make everyone jealous of your cooler!
I searched back to 2015, I think it was my first post on GRM.
How to at least double the duration of time that the box will stay cold:
First, put some ice in the box overnight before you pack it. Prechilling the box before you pack it makes a difference. It also helps to "temper" your ice, by storing it in a below zero freezer before use.
Most importantly, pick up a mylar "emergency blanket" at the big box store for a couple of bucks. Unfold it, then refold loosely so that it has some air in between the folds. For most standard size boxes (up to about 70 quarts or so), the blanket should still have at least 3-4 layers when refolded.
After the box is packed, wrap the mylar blanket over top of the contents and push it down around the sides. I often follow that with a mylar lined bubble pack bag that is used for shipping vaccines and other temperature sensitive medications. It looks kind of like one of those windshield shades. You can make something like this by cutting open a reusable insulated grocery bag to fit in the top of your box.
Keep the box out of the sun (seems obvious, but I've seen them left out a lot). I'll sometimes wrap a couple of layers of beach towels around and over the top of the cooler.
For best results, don't use ice. I save the cold packs from our vaccine shipments and keep them in my home freezer. The freezer is much more efficient when it's cold, so I save power when they're stored.
The big box store will have some commercial versions of the cold packs in the camping section, along with the above mentioned emergency blankets. I use both types, since the rubbermaid ones are much more durable.
Because I rarely use ice, I don't have to deal with melted water. The inside of the box is dry, so I don't even have to clean it before storage.
When we go camping its long term but close to home. Allows the kids to keep working their summer jobs, trips home for clothes washing and proper showers, mow the lawn, etc. We freeze water in cran juice bottles, and swap in new ones every couple of days. No water to deal with. The campsite has one of those giant orange beverage coolers filled with drinking water. When the ice in the cran juice bottles melts, we pour it into the beverage cooler. We also freeze blocks of ice in Tuperware containers to add to the beverage cooler. Works well, but good for two days at a whack.
In reply to nimblemotorsports :
Only $2k? That's almost competitive with a Yeti.
The ARB freezers work very well and are very efficient. I have friends that have been taking them to Moab for years and they keep the posicles from melting on the trail.
12v fridges are amazing. Arb, Engel, national Luna, whatever else you guys have over there?
No lost space from ice, no soggy messes. Ours is dual zone, so we can have fridge freezer, all fridge or all freezer. Freezer is handy for extended travels because you can take frozen pre prepared meals, extra meat and veggies that would otherwise spoil of soley refrigerated. It's also handy to have around as backup/overflow around the house (it will run on 240v as well, it has an internal transformer)
Keith Tanner said:Propane fridges are just assisted coolers, really. They can only manage about a 40f delta. Fine when it's 70F, not so good at 100. They also draw massive power on 12v. Enough that it's not really an option I burned up a golf cart power solenoid on mine.
Awesome picture! I love your Westfalia.
The delta of propane refrigerators is going to depend on the fridge. The one in my motorhome has a freezer. With a 80 degree temp in the RV it will hold the freezer at 0 with no issues. Mine is 120v or propane. I bet it would kill a 12v battery in a hurry.
What kills a propane fridge is being out of level. Ammonia cycle refrigerators are super sensitive to levelness. Get the angle of any of the passages wrong and their efficiency falls off quickly. It was frequently a problem with the refrigerator in my truck camper. You would have had that issue with your Westy as well. A 12v compressor fridge works much better off the beaten path since most of them will handle 20 degrees of slope without issue. He would have the same problem I have with running one for days on end. Trees and solar panels don't go together. That means having an alternative way of charging the battery.
12-volt coolers have been around for a long time. No idea how well they work, but for around $100, you have options.
https://www.amazon.com/Koolatron-P27-Grey-Voyager-Cooler/dp/B0001MQ7DQ/?tag=12-volt-cooler-pcr-20
Something we've done in the past that may not be applicable to your situation is to vacuum seal all the food before hand and keep it in the water at the camp site.
Obviously only good in cooler areas, but cheap and easy.
Thanks for the info on the propane fridges. I knew they couldn't all be as bad as the stock Westy one. The contortions that people go through to make those Westy units slightly effective are hilarious - extra fans, shuffling ice packs around to distribute cold, etc. They are efficient on propane, though.
Agreed, running solar does require good sunshine. It's fairly normal to see panels on an extension cord to allow the panel to be placed out in the sun, which is a good alternative if you're parked in the trees. Our fridge doesn't pull much power, I think it averages about 1 Ah. We use a fairly small 42 Ah house battery and have very little other load thanks to the modern wonder of LED lights. So it'll go a day and a half off the battery before you have to start thinking about putting a bit of power in, and the 100W panel gives us about 6 Ah (if memory serves) so we only need 4 hours of sun a day. If you run a 100Ah house battery - a lot more common than my small repurposed car battery - you've got three days of cooling power. That's about the best you can expect a bag of ice to last. We've camped in shady campgrounds but have never had trouble getting power into the batteries for various reasons, either because we went out on road trips or because 12h of shade was still enough to get some electrons into the box.
And if worst comes to worst, you use a generator (aka run the engine).
I put a 4 cubic foot Truck Fridge in the Airstream when I rebuilt the inside. We've been living in it for 7 months now while we're building our cabin in the woods. I layered mine with 1" foam board to add insulation and it's been purring along just fine drawing what I'm guessing is 3 amps/hr. I'd go the 12v compressor route- Simple, efficient, relatively light, easy to run with solar. Poly polycrystalline solar panels work better in anything less than full sun.
Easy button? Winter camping. I'll see myself out.
2 part question ,
search Ebay "Double-sided Lasting Ice Pack" for these ice packs , I bought them years ago at Walmart for cheap but they do not have them anymore ,
2nd part , so I bought them from Ebay , shipped from China but they are empty ! ummm the Walmart ones had some "magic juice" in them.
So what 'Magic Juice" can I put in them that will lower the freezing temp and take longer to "defrost"
If water and salt how much salt ? will something work better ? the ice packs will be sealed
These work very well , I have a small soft pack that fits 6 cans and just put one of these between the rows of cans.....
I suggest against the 12v coolers. I decided to try that and I woke up to two dead batteries (one in the truck and one in the coach) and warm milk. They draw a ton of juice. They also only do about 25-30 degrees delta.
A Yeti knockoff is a good bet, but when you're camping, space is an issue. The sidewalls of those types of coolers is so thick that you don't get much storage space for the amount of real estate it occupies.
For me, I chose the Yeti knockoff (65 qt?) and I found a 1.5 gallon water jug that fits nicely along one side. Fill that and freeze it and it will work for about 4 days, depending on how many times you open it. It's ok for milk, sodas, or veggies. As the ice melts and gets insulated by its own water, things don't stay really cold, so I get a little anal and either take cured meats (bacon, sausage, deer bologna) or if I want to take something non-cured (burger, chicken, steak) I will buy it in hermetically sealed bags and freeze it. By the second or third day it's thawed but still safe.
You have to distinguish between the different types of "12v coolers".
Some have compressors like a real grown-up refrigerator. My Truckfridge is one of those. The ARB freezer/coolers are as well, which is why they work so well. But it'll cost you.
Some are absorbtion coolers, which are basically the propane fridges but running off 12v. Massive power hogs in that situation, I would consider the electric operation to be the emergency mode. I just checked, and the little Westfalia unit I pulled out would draw 7A on 12v and needed to run constantly. I doubt you'd find a cooler with this setup, only built-in fridges.
Some are thermoelectric (Peltier), which has a limited temperature delta. They're inexpensive. I suspect this is what Curtis tried.
In all cases, you'll want to check the draw and make sure you have enough power on board to deal with it.
One other thing to do is to freeze your food. When we go to Canada, we freeze steak. It is put in a cooler (Yeti knockoff) around 11PM on a Friday. The cooler, in a truck bed, is not touched until 5AM Sunday morning, at which point the steaks are removed and put in a food barrel (no insulation, no ice, just frozen steaks and then dry food). By dinner time, they're thawed but still cold.
If they were to remain in the cooler, I'd imagine they stay frozen for an entire weekend.
Some good info in here. I've been looking at getting a solar panel for energy needs but never thought about long term food cooling. I have one of the walmart yeti knock offs from their Ozark brand. For weekend trips it does the trick with dry ice and reg ice mixed together. I'll typically keep meat and greens in there and have another cooler for drinks and whatnot.
I always take a couple things of SPAM with me on any camping trip. That way if anything happens to your cooler and your protein spoils, you have backup. Jerky works well too but not as easy to integrate into meals.
And pics of camping rig:
You have propane tanks then a propane fridge is about 350$ and will run for a long time on the gas you have. I think they use ammonia instead of standard gasses but they are cheap and available. If you can fit a medium yeti in you can easily fit one of these.
Keith Tanner said:You have to distinguish between the different types of "12v coolers".
Some have compressors like a real grown-up refrigerator. My Truckfridge is one of those. The ARB freezer/coolers are as well, which is why they work so well. But it'll cost you.
Some are absorbtion coolers, which are basically the propane fridges but running off 12v. Massive power hogs in that situation, I would consider the electric operation to be the emergency mode. I just checked, and the little Westfalia unit I pulled out would draw 7A on 12v and needed to run constantly. I doubt you'd find a cooler with this setup, only built-in fridges.
Some are thermoelectric (Peltier), which has a limited temperature delta. They're inexpensive. I suspect this is what Curtis tried.
In all cases, you'll want to check the draw and make sure you have enough power on board to deal with it.
I don't know the terminology, but mine was one of those that looked like a normal cooler and you could reverse the plug to make it a warmer.
Agreed on the 12v RV fridge. I had a 3-way in the old trailer and it would consume a monster H8 battery pretty quickly. I never saw the need for it other than DOT laws. You're technically not supposed to have propane tanks open while you're on the road, but who checks? New trailer sits in one place and always has shore power, so I ripped out the defunct, semi-working propane fridge and put a residential 120v fridge in its place.
I'm intrigued by the 12v compressor TruckFridge. I don't know how 12v is enough to operate a compressor but I'll have to check them out. What kind of amps do they draw?
If you can reverse the polarity to make it a heater, it's a thermoelectric.
The Truckfridge I have (TF65, I think) draws either 2.3A or 6A depending on where you get your information. I suspect it's a 6A starting surge with a 2.3A continuous. Actual consumption depends on your duty cycle because it cycles on and off depending on how cold you set it. I use 1 to 1.25Ah. It's not a big compressor but then again it's not a big fridge :) There are versions that will switch between 12v and 120v, mine is a pure 12v version and I plug in a charger to maintain the battery if I'm on shore power.
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