Educate me on dishwashers

pinchvalve said:

Bosch models seem to be the best rated overall, but you pay 50% more for them and they don't last 50% longer. 

Double check the reviews these days.  5 years ago when I bought a Bosch, yes.  A few months ago when I researched again, everything had changed.

I picked the GE because it was light years ahead in actual dishwashing and hundreds cheaper than Bosch.  I don't care about noise (although my GE is very quiet even though it's missing it's blanket), I don't care about "aqua-sensory perception" or "dual zone useless feature."  I want to have a reliable machine, put dishes in, push a button, and get clean dishes out.  For the last couple years, GE has dominated that category.

This is of course, my opinion.  I wanted the best cleaning, and at the time of my shopping a few months ago, GE trumped all of them.  If you really need a few quieter dB, or need specialty features, I would understand choosing a different machine.  I just cared about cleaning.  Period.

If you check the reviews on CNET for under $600 (since he said budget), not a single Bosch shows up in the top 30.  Even if you stretch it to $800, you get one bosch and about 20 models of GE - most of which put the entry level Bosch to shame.  Granted, I could have spent $1400 new for the first Bosch model that cleaned as well as my $600 (MSRP, paid less used) GE, but I didn't.

John Welsh said:

I just remembered another thing about why I liked AJ Madison.  Not sales tax was charged.  For you, in Chicago, a $500 purchase could be $50 in just taxes!  Seems shipping is free for over $500.  

That means that the $444 entry model Bosch is $99 for shipping  = $543

The next model Bosch is $534 but free shipping makes it = $534

FYI, this will probably not last. Tax laws are changing, you can expect to have to pay state tax on internet sales soon. The bigger the company, the sooner it will happen.

Keith Tanner said:

John Welsh said:

I just remembered another thing about why I liked AJ Madison.  Not sales tax was charged.  For you, in Chicago, a $500 purchase could be $50 in just taxes!  Seems shipping is free for over $500.  

That means that the $444 entry model Bosch is $99 for shipping  = $543

The next model Bosch is $534 but free shipping makes it = $534

FYI, this will probably not last. Tax laws are changing, you can expect to have to pay state tax on internet sales soon. The bigger the company, the sooner it will happen.

Truth.  This tax season I got a letter from Crutchfield so I could pay my state taxes on the stuff I bought from VA last year.

We went through this a few years ago and ended up with a higher-end KitchenAid. The Bosch models seem to have slipped a bit and we weren't impressed with the ones we saw. Our KitchenAid is nice and quiet - it was a huge upgrade over our prior (ancient) dishwasher.

In reply to mtn :

I like blonde models, newer editions, ample upper shelf capacity but don't mind if they've been demoed. 

Just went through this, replacing all of the appliances in the new house. 

All the recent reviews pointed to the GE in our price range. Cleaning and quiet were top priorities, and we set a $1000 budget. We ended up with a $900 GE model that we are very happy with. To be honest, the $600 version was very similar, this one is just a little quieter with a few more features. It does have separate jets for the silverware, which work great. It's very quiet, important because we do a lot of entertaining in our kitchen and it's right next to our family room. We can start it any time and not worry about noise. It cleans like a champ. It has tons of jets everywhere. The dishes come out clean even when my 9 year old loads it haphazardly. The racks are deep, plenty of room for tall cups and plates at the same time. The rack adjusts, but haven't needed to yet. 

A couple dishwasher shopping tips I learned-

Remember how loud dishwashers used to be? It was partly because they frequently had disposers built in to break up food. Many dishwashers eliminated them in the favor of screens that must be cleaned regularly, to make them quieter. So don't just look at the dB rating, check that it still has a disposer. GE still does. 

I shopped over a fairly long period of time, and noticed that prices fluctuate pretty drastically. Up and down on the same models. Catch the one you want during one of the price lulls.

That said, many manufacturers are poised for a tariff increase if nothing changes by March 1st. I was told up to 15%.

Appliance stores seemed to unanimously be wary of LG and Samsung. They said they were good appliances, but parts and service were much harder to get than the other main brands. 

Take a box of your dishes with you and see how they fit. We do not have a bosch because whey do not fit our dishes well.

My Bosch died after 5 years.  It gradually kept losing features and customer service wanted nothing to do with even when it was still under warranty.  We have a company here in Michigan call noble appliance they sell floor model and new old stock stuff.  I bought a high end ge washer for 250 with full warranty.  I was able to pick it up so no shipping.  They sell on eBay.  I have since bought a dryer from them as well.

I'll have to check out GE if our Bosch ever does give up the ghost!

Bosch owner here. I am going to jinx myself, but not a problem in the 10 years I’ve had it. 

My parents have a Bosch. It is not a user friendly machine. God forbid you stop it mid cycle. Don't even lean on the counter in front of it. It will not resume a cycle after it is disturbed. Open the door to add something, start the cycle over. Remove something to hand wash that you need now, start the cycle over. My mother despises the thing. 

Ours is a $200 something from Lowes. GE, I think.  It's silent, it cleans well, it's stupid simple, good enough. It's 3 years old and still chugging along fine. It replaced a Samsung that I couldn't get parts for.

I bought my house in Sept '17.  Had been thoroughly remodeled, the kitchen had the entry-level stainless steel GE dishwasher, electric oven, and over oven microwave. 

I'm not particularly pleased with the GE. It's not quiet (but not super loud), it doesn't clean especially well, and it's really, really cheaply constructed. Like go to close the door and a few pounds of pressure not straight back and the door flexes and hits the cabinet. 

I'd like to replace it, but our fridge already doesn't match the other 3 (if they had left another 1-1.5" in that spot we could have used any of the bottom freezer french door configurations), so I don't really want 3 different stainless steel finishes in the kitchen.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think we're staying away from Bosch because of the price, and in our experience, my in-laws have one... you need to basically hand wash the dishes before you put them in there.

In any case, I'll make sure whatever we get has a garbage disposal.

Two years ago I researched ad infinitum.  Tried to buy a Bosch, got it delivered, huge scratch on the front no more of that model in stock at Lowenardepot.  It went back, I bought a high-end Kitchenaid on clearance.  It's been great, cleans well, and is quiet enough that I can't hear it run.  Seriously, it's just barely audible if you're next to it, and our house is a big echoey cave (all hard floors).  It is a bastard to keep the outside clean.  It was very highly reviewed at the time.  I think we spent ~$700, MSRP was around $900.  I would buy it again in a heartbeat.

IIRC, some of the price leader Bosch units that you get at the big-box stores had been significantly decontented and they are not nearly as reliable or long-lasting as the higher end Bosches.  Moral being that sometimes you get what you pay for.  

If you're really looking to pinch pennies, you can find usable older dishwashers on CL for $50-$100.  They're a snap to install if you've already got the wiring and drain hookups there.  Not really that painful to swap out if goes out after a year (provided it doesn't leak everywhere and damage floor/cabinets/drywall first).

Another nod for used.  I got mine for somewhere between 100-200 bucks (I forget, I looked at so many), but I bought it in 2018 as a 2015 model that originally sold for $600-700.  It wasn't heavily used, looked mostly new, and aside from a $25-ish float switch replacement that took 3 minutes it has been rock solid.

Its a GE model GDT530PGD0BB just for the sake of reference.

psteav said:

IIRC, some of the price leader Bosch units that you get at the big-box stores had been significantly decontented and they are not nearly as reliable or long-lasting as the higher end Bosches.  Moral being that sometimes you get what you pay for.  

 

This is true for many of the brand names at box stores.  I used to work for HD in the warranty repair department.  We repaired customer tools, lawnmowers, snow blowers, and also reconditioned returns for liquidation at outlet stores.

Faucets, appliances, and 120v tools are the worst offenders.  The box stores have a pretty tight grip on the manufacturers.  For manufacturers, HD and Lowes represent their biggest profit and volume, so when the box stores say "make it cheaper or we won't sell it," the manufacturers have little choice but to swap out some of the metal for plastic, find a cheaper supplier for electronics, and skimp wherever they can.  There was one model of Dewalt 10" portable table saw we sold that the whole motor carriage was plastic and liked to crack letting the blade torque on an angle. One of the planers we sold used plastic pinion gears for the adjustment crossover and they frequently broke.

So yes, you get what you pay for, and since the big box stores pay the least, you often get the least.  Take note some time by comparing the Moen faucets on HD's website and the ones on Moen's website.  None of the model names are the same even though they look the same.  Moen uses plastic guts instead of brass for HD's faucets, puts a new name on it, and HD can say "sold exclusively at HD"

Good to know about the faucets, thanks.

Toyman01 said:

My parents have a Bosch. It is not a user friendly machine. God forbid you stop it mid cycle. Don't even lean on the counter in front of it. It will not resume a cycle after it is disturbed. Open the door to add something, start the cycle over. Remove something to hand wash that you need now, start the cycle over. My mother despises the thing.

That's exactly the way my dang Kitchenaid is.  Hopefully, it was just a phase the manufacturers went through and they have discovered the folly of their ways!

Curtis said:

psteav said:

IIRC, some of the price leader Bosch units that you get at the big-box stores had been significantly decontented and they are not nearly as reliable or long-lasting as the higher end Bosches.  Moral being that sometimes you get what you pay for.  

 

This is true for many of the brand names at box stores.  I used to work for HD in the warranty repair department.  We repaired customer tools, lawnmowers, snow blowers, and also reconditioned returns for liquidation at outlet stores.

Faucets, appliances, and 120v tools are the worst offenders.  The box stores have a pretty tight grip on the manufacturers.  For manufacturers, HD and Lowes represent their biggest profit and volume, so when the box stores say "make it cheaper or we won't sell it," the manufacturers have little choice but to swap out some of the metal for plastic, find a cheaper supplier for electronics, and skimp wherever they can.  There was one model of Dewalt 10" portable table saw we sold that the whole motor carriage was plastic and liked to crack letting the blade torque on an angle. One of the planers we sold used plastic pinion gears for the adjustment crossover and they frequently broke.

So yes, you get what you pay for, and since the big box stores pay the least, you often get the least.  Take note some time by comparing the Moen faucets on HD's website and the ones on Moen's website.  None of the model names are the same even though they look the same.  Moen uses plastic guts instead of brass for HD's faucets, puts a new name on it, and HD can say "sold exclusively at HD"

So let's say, you want to bite the bullet and buy the "high end" version of say, Bosch, for your kitchen appliances. Does that mean you have to buy direct from Bosch (can you even do that) or maybe a small local place? Or are the high-end/expensive units at the big box stores still the "good" versions? 

The Mrs and I just went through this when our faithful Whirlpool Gold crapped out on us.  Turns out from some sleuting that the push button board had shorted out, was NLA, and no available spares on fleabay.  

From previous experience we loaded up the Family Truckster and headed on over to the Sears Outlet a few blocks away - not affiliated with the actual sears, but a scratch and dent wholesaler.

Ended up getting a Whirlpool something something mid level unit that goes for around $650 in the stores for $350 cash and carry, only defects was it was missing its blanket and had a scuff on the handle.  Swapped the blanket from the old whirlpool to the new one, took some rubbing compound to the scuff, and was in business.