Electrician quotes question, getting mixed info

In reply to madmallard:

A cost breakdown is the realm of estimators and systems that simply do not exist among residential contractors. That's what makes them residential contractors.

Only commercial contractors (accustomed to itemizing for government projects, insurance projects, etc) approach estimating that way.

Residential contractors use WAGs, SWAGs, lump sums, square footage estimates, or day rates. None of these estimating methods ever give them the opportunity to separate their labor from their materials. They price the job according to what others are getting (to the best of their understanding, from a conversation with the guy at the supply house), and they do not spend more than 30 minutes or so working on an estimate (the initial meeting with the customer). Anything beyond that, is a waste of time, because it is extremely rare that a customer looking for more detail will ever hire them.

Some contractors, like masons and roofers, simply charge for their labor the same amount as the materials quote from their supplier. If materials go up, they get a pay raise. They have no idea how much time it will take, or what the word "overhead" means.

So, what you are looking for is available, but it will be the contractors more familiar with commercial estimating. These are the same contractors who will be the highest price options.

I realize it is counter-intuitive, but it is true. I am just trying to help.

If you want a low price, you have to figure out how to communicate to the contractor that you are going to be an easy customer to work with and he will make money. YOU CAN'T DO THIS OVER THE PHONE OR ONLINE. Asking for a cost breakdown signals him that you will be shopping it around, checking every stupid detail, and be beating him up on price. It scares him, because you are probably smarter than him. That's not good for him, so he pitches a high price over the fence (which he spends very little time on) on the off-chance you may hire him.

This bothers many owners, but it is the way it works. The reality is that low priced contractors (residential) can't do a cost breakdown. They don't know how. If they did, they would be commercial estimators, and would no longer be low cost.

The only time costs are shown is when a contractor is hired on a cost-plus arrangement. Owners hate this, because they think the costs will run out of control (they are wrong- it's much more fair, and the only way to save money).

The smartest contractors out there will take advantage of you in a cost breakdown. They will give you want you think you want (a list), but it will be disguised, and profits will be hidden all over the place. It will be detailed enough that you think you can understand it, but confusing and vague enough that they have plenty of wiggle room when the time comes to actually bill you. That's how insurance estimating works.

My advice is to consider it less of a list of what you want, and more of a game of psychological advantage, salesmanship,

We don't ask for cost breakdowns when we buy a car, a computer, hire a housekeeper, or buy a steak dinner. Why do we think it is appropriate when asking for construction services?

There's also the question of whether or not there is other work. If they're busy, they're not going to bother with some rinky dink garage job unless they know they can make a pile of cash on it. My father in law is desperately trying to hire someone to clean and paint the steel roof on their church. To the guys who do that work, it's a small complicated pain in the ass job. The economy is good and they're busy with better work. They're quoting him 3x what estimates were three years ago when the church started gathering money for the job.

It's akin to calling a garage, telling them your car makes a funny noise, and asking them for the repair cost estimate over the phone. Your not getting good information. Not even if you accurately describe the noise.

Beware overly cheap work. I'm dealing with this right now at a friends place with his greenhouses. Greenhouse #1 was installed using a cheap licensed electrician. Greenhouse #2 was installed using an expensive licensed electrician. Guess which one has heavier wires, better equipment and less problems?

mazdeuce wrote: There's also the question of whether or not there is other work. If they're busy, they're not going to bother with some rinky dink garage job unless they know they can make a pile of cash on it. My father in law is desperately trying to hire someone to clean and paint the steel roof on their church. To the guys who do that work, it's a small complicated pain in the ass job. The economy is good and they're busy with better work. They're quoting him 3x what estimates were three years ago when the church started gathering money for the job.

My mother is having the same problem. She cannot find contractors to do simple projects. She wants a ceiling fan installed in her bedroom along with a few additional outlets in various places. Money is not an issue. Finding an electrician who will even come out and look at the job has been like pulling teeth, forget actually getting them to do the work after they've agreed to.

It's a shame her husband has decided to dislike me for some reason or I would do it.

Anyway, the best advice I can offer the OP is to get some graph paper and sketch out the garage and house as close to scale as possible. Start with a rough outline, then measure everything, then transfer more accurate lines to a new graph sheet. Be sure to note the distance each square represents. Then make a few copies. Sketch where you want things to go on a copy: new panel, lights, receptacles. Scan this to a PDF and email it to contractors after calling them. Maybe add a few pictures of the garage and the electrical panel.

Your goal here is two-fold: make is easy for them to a) understand what you want done, and b) come up with a cost with the least amount of effort. Remember: time = money and having to drive out to talk to you for a couple of hours about a small job they may not get is expensive to them. Most of these guys are well versed in using technology now.

Many years ago I wanted some bushes and trees removed from my back yard. Working full-time over an hour away, it was difficult to meet with anyone. So I sketched out a plan of my back yard showing what I wanted removed. I made both a "demo" plan and a "finished" plan of how I wanted it to look afterwards. I sent a PDF of these to a tree guy. He called me back with a quote. I agreed and he did the work. Exactly how I wanted it. He said he loved getting the drawing and it made it one of the easiest jobs he'd done.