http://www.economist.com/node/21589208
There was a interesting article about roads and maintenance. I live in Erie,Pa and have traveled to Cleveland, Oh, pretty much all of my life. There hasn't been a time that I have been on I-90, where there was some sort of construction on the roads. I always consider that the problem is the rush to get the work done and quality gets sacrificed. Honestly the roads are still terriable no matter how much they fix them every year.
They were done in traditional american fashion.........by the lowest bidder as fast as possible with the cheapest materials.
They didn't learn a damn thing from the autobahn while we were using it.
My wife works in highway construction. The roads are built to the standards, specifications and schedule set by the state/county/city. Higher standards and higher quality materials = more expensive work. It's common to see the road owner decide to do a quick and easy patch instead of a proper fix because it's cheaper. Drives her nuts.
Also, when the road owner decides to do a fix themselves, there's no oversight. So if our city decides to repave a section of road themselves instead of putting it out for bid, it'll invariably be a crap job. They don't have to meet their own standards.
The companies in highway construction are starving right now. They're bidding jobs at close to what it costs them to do the work, just to keep their equipment and people. They used to depend on high-margin work like subdivisions and parking lots, but with the collapse of housing construction comes a loss of those paving/dirt work jobs as well.
The price of asphalt is directly related to the price of oil because, well, there's lots of oil in it. When you see gas at $4.00/gallon, that means it's brutally expensive to lay down new pavement. Meanwhile, the revenues that pay for road construction drop down due to those fixed rate taxes.
On top of that, infrastructure isn't sexy. It's relatively easy for our local school board to get more money (think of the children!) and that money comes out of things like infrastructure. You can always put off repairing the roads until next year. Or the year after. Or after the election.
I always thought it was because the DOT is just a corrupt jobs program that farms the work out to the people who contribute to campaigns. Here in PA that would most likely be organizations that call themselves "families" and rig union elections too.
"If you a gonna fix it too right you wonna haf to fix it again, capice?"
The bidding process is open and public just to avoid this sort of thing. Not to say there aren't some shenanigans, but the problem is deeper than corruption.
In reply to yamaha:
When Germany was building the Autobahn, the American's looked at building their roads to those standards. The problem? It would have cost way too much money to do since we have so much more area to cover.
With that said, it is pretty obvious that budgeting for maintenance of existing infrastructure has either been completely ignored or has not kept up with inflation or in some cases has been redirected to pet projects (bike lanes or other non-commerce generating projects)
The highways were built to support commerce and the military, the personal use was a side effect.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
IDK why they think asphalt roads make any sense......1 single winter and you're having to patch them everywhere. Do it right, with concrete.
In reply to turboswede:
Yes, I know we cheaped out back then, probably shouldn't have. 
yamaha wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: IDK why they think asphalt roads make any sense......1 single winter and you're having to patch them everywhere. Do it right, with concrete.
Oh, do NOT get my wife going on that.
Short version: you are so, so wrong.
yamaha wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: IDK why they think asphalt roads make any sense......1 single winter and you're having to patch them everywhere. Do it right, with concrete.
I can't stand concrete roads. Expansion joints are a pain in the ass, moreso than potholes.
They want to see whether it is possible to log the number of miles a vehicle is driven, without collecting data on where it went and when.
Do ya mean an odometer?
In reply to RealMiniDriver:
Well, if INDOT would happily cover costs of the factory wheels that keep getting bent on my fukus, I might agree with you. 
Seriously, its 3 of them just this year.
yamaha wrote: In reply to turboswede: Yes, I know we cheaped out back then, probably shouldn't have.
It wasn't "cheaping" out, it was very cost-prohibitive and it wasn't like we as a country were flush with money at the time.
Still wouldn't have resolved the issues with maintenance as it wouldn't have raised the costs of maintenance.
I hate concrete roads … when they're new, they're GREAT but as the age they're worse than asphalt ..at least asphalt can be patched ….
around here they don't seem to be able to do anything with concrete roads as they deteriorate … the get so rough that they'll break teeth (with a stiffly sprung car) they try to grind them smooth … doesn't last very long, then eventually they'll re-pave … you guessed it …. with asphalt
In reply to wbjones:
The problem with the concrete roadways is they a.) Never prepped them properly, b.) Used improper mixes, c.) Didn't make them thick enough.
I love getting on new concrete highways......you could almost sleep cruising down them.
Keith Tanner wrote: The bidding process is open and public just to avoid this sort of thing. Not to say there aren't some shenanigans, but the problem is deeper than corruption.
This is how it's done here PA Turnpike: Pay to Play
Other than the noise, new concrete is nice. But it has a poor failure mode - any shifting of the base means cracking and uneven slabs. Asphalt is flexible, so it will follow what the roadbase does. Asphalt is also easier to patch - both poorly and well. And it's recyclable!
You see a lot of concrete in Nebraska because there's no gravel there 
It's fun to say "we cheaped out" and "it's all corrupt", but the problem is really very simple.
Infrastructure wears out and needs maintenance. The longer you defer the maintenance, the more it will cost to do. The cost of doing this maintenance has been going up dramatically. The amount of money available to do this maintenance has been going down.
How do you fix it? You suck it up and spend money.
Keith Tanner wrote: On top of that, infrastructure isn't sexy. It's relatively easy for our local school board to get more money (think of the children!) and that money comes out of things like infrastructure. You can always put off repairing the roads until next year. Or the year after. Or after the election.
Make that road a bridge on a Interstate Highway administered by a 2-state joint commision and it's even worse. I present to you:
http://www.scudderfallsbridge.com/
It was built in the late 50's and is over 60 years old. It's the only non-toll hwy bridge across the Delaware between NJ and PA. They've been trying to replace this bridge for over 10 years now. They've bought up most of the houses and land required. The current plans have pretty much been approved for 3 years now. Other than a sign with the web address above, there has been nothing done.
My guess is it probably has to do with money. The available land doesn't allow for installation of toll booths, therefore they can't use toll income to pay for the bridge. PA and NJ have little incentive to invest since neither state has 100% control. The DE River Bridge Authority has little incentive to build an expensive free bridge when all of their other hwy bridges generate millions in toll income. And as we know, the Fed won't do anything until it becomes a problem - in other words - when the bridge falls down. Oh yeah... the section of river it crosses is fast moving and fairly deep with many deadly under-currents. Anyone who falls into it will likely drown if the 40' drop doesn't kill them first.
I ride under this bridge often as part of my road riding loop. When I look up at it, it amazes me how it is a 4 lane bridge crossed by 1000's of cars every day, including myself 2x/day. Two simple steel girders from pier to pier with diagonal ties between them. That's it. I can only hope I'm not on it when the inevitable happens.
Keith Tanner wrote:yamaha wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: IDK why they think asphalt roads make any sense......1 single winter and you're having to patch them everywhere. Do it right, with concrete.Oh, do NOT get my wife going on that. Short version: you are so, so wrong.
Indeed. Concrete comes apart much more quickly than asphalt, which seems "stretchier".
I did note that they just repaved a bunch of the berm/median on I-271 between -71 and -77 with concrete. Weirdest thing to see them out there with what I think of as concrete spatulas, working the wet concrete back and forth as it dried.
Labor intensive, more damage prone, a lot louder, but probably cheaper than asphalt for reasons mentioned.
(at least they REPAVE around here. I've driven on chipseal and that seems like the worst idea ever. Grind it down to something smooth and lay 6-12 inches of asphalt back on top!)
yamaha wrote: I love getting on new concrete highways......you could almost sleep cruising down them.
On I-70 west of Columbus, you can tell when you're getting close to the city. The road suddenly gets to be ear-piercingly, deafeningly LOUD because it's concrete.
When you're driving an RX-7 with a straight through exhaust and the tire noise from the traffic driving next to you is louder and shriller than a 12A spinning at 4000rpm, you know the road sucks.
One thing I hate the most about driving the Miata to races is the sound of traffic around me on the concrete. The noise is deafening.
That is interesting info Keith, they just repaved one of my favorite motorcycle roads in asphalt and it is a great ride. Thanks for some insights into highway construction. Those guys use all the neat equipment.
Done right concrete is great, the first sunken highway in the US, the M-8 Davidson freeway, was concrete cured underwater, when they widened it in the 90s, they needed dynamite to remove the old concrete.
When autocrossing on old, worn out RT-615s, old concrete (sebring paddock area) feels like it has more grip than old beat up asphalt (the site we rent in lake county). I don't have much else to add. 
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