End of the road

I loathe the asphalt "ripple" effect around lights......on the bike it feels like you're on a cruise ship in 70ft seas

I'll trade road noise anyway.

JoeyM wrote: When autocrossing on old, worn out RT-615s, old concrete (sebring paddock area) feels like it has more grip than old beat up asphalt (the site we rent in lake county). I don't have much else to add.

Our old autocross site was a decomissioned airport runway.

Concrete is SUPER grippy but it chews race tires up really quick.

It didn't take much to flat-spot R-comps out there.

yamaha wrote: I loathe the asphalt "ripple" effect around lights......on the bike it feels like you're on a cruise ship in 70ft seas

Ah... braking bumps... usually only an issue on roads with a lot of heavy truck traffic that has to come down from a decent speed. A couple of spots that come to mind are Rt 1 S near Plainsboro, NJ and the exit ramp off the PATP into the Rt 1. At least a bike has suspension travel... in a classic Mini with tiny 10" wheels those damn bumps practically swallow the car.

I thought this thread was going to be about Boyz II Men

Keith Tanner wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: IDK why they think asphalt roads make any sense......1 single winter and you're having to patch them everywhere. Do it right, with concrete.

Oh, do NOT get my wife going on that. Short version: you are so, so wrong.

What does your wife think of this?

Around here, when the roads start to get rough, they patch up the holes and rough spots with asphalt, then spray tar, followed by a generous application of gravel. Within a week it looks like a newly paved road. They're smooth, seem to last, and must be cheap as hell to re-do. I don't think we have any more dirt or gravel roads anymore, because they've done this to them.

On top of asphalt or on top of gravel? If it's the former, it's a cheap way to make a resurface feel higher quality. Done well, it seems to work. Done poorly, the gravel disappears in short order.

We see this a lot with gypsies - paving companies who come in to town, buy a minimum amount of asphalt from a local supplier and snake up a lot of jobs. Then they blow town and leave crap work behind. A gypsy just did the parking lot to our gym, and Janel was quite vocal about it. It really was a terrible job, the gravel is the wrong sort (it's not chip seal material) and it didn't adhere. So now it's a gravel parking lot on top of asphalt that's going to degrade quickly.

As for those ripples, I THINK that's caused by using the wrong oil in the mix. You have to match the oil to the local temperatures, and if it's spec'd wrong you'll see failures. That's why the roads in the UK were falling apart a few years ago when temperatures hit 100F, while we see those temps every year in Colorado without trouble. I'll double check that with Janel tonight, and get her feedback on the pave+seal technique.

BTW, it's fun going through a construction zone with this girl. She's like a little kid when she sees a cool piece of equipment, and she offers a running commentary on the company, their quality and things like "hey, there's Joe!".

On top of asphalt or on top of gravel?

Both, and both seem to be holding up very well.

The article linked in the initial post advocates GPS mileage-tracking devices in order to shore up the highway funds because raising the gas tax is politically difficult. I hate crap like that. We already have the perfect mechanism for funding roads: gas taxes. Lighter, more fuel efficient cars wear the roads less and they pay less in gas taxes. Driving less wears the road less and you pay less in gas taxes. Drive a heavy (and thus thirsty) car a lot and you pay more in gas taxes. Perfect. Instead we will almost certainly end up with some BS electronic device some day and it'll work half as well for twice as much money but it will be more "politically expedient." Grrr.

I agree. There's no reason to go to a complicated solution. But what do we do about the heavy, fuel efficient cars?

As CAFE gets tougher, the amount of tax revenue to maintain this infrastructure is going to go down. Basically, the gas tax needs to go up.

dculberson wrote: The article linked in the initial post advocates GPS mileage-tracking devices in order to shore up the highway funds because raising the gas tax is politically difficult. I hate crap like that. We already have the perfect mechanism for funding roads: gas taxes. Lighter, more fuel efficient cars wear the roads less and they pay less in gas taxes. Driving less wears the road less and you pay less in gas taxes. Drive a heavy (and thus thirsty) car a lot and you pay more in gas taxes. Perfect. Instead we will almost certainly end up with some BS electronic device some day and it'll work half as well for twice as much money but it will be more "politically expedient." Grrr.

I HATE the idea of the government tracking me. I swear to god if they do that I will smash the berkeleying device.

I really hope that was posted from a smartphone

So, I talked to Janel. I swear, I should put her on speakerphone on the forum when she starts raving about some of these subjects. It's highly entertaining.

The ripples at stop signs can be caused by the wrong oil. It can also be a problem with the asphalt thickness being specified too thin. But if you're constantly dealing with heavy trucks stopping in the same place, that's a good option for concrete. Asphalt is just too plastic for those very high shear loads.

The idea of simply chipsealing a gravel road is a good one. If the road's been there forever, it has a very solid compacted base. You'll only make it worse by tearing it up. So if you do a good job of the chip seal, you'll make a good road.