End of world fuel idea

So for an end of the wold as we know it idea, how about a battery powered vehicle with solar and steam powered generator.

Idea is, you cannot always sit around for a panel to power you up, toss in some wood, fire up the boiler and use some good old fashion steam to turn a  generator and charge the batteries.  You can charge at night while resting, through rain or snow and should be quicker than panels.

Question is, what would be the best way to implement?  Put batteries in a truck or suburban vehicle and tow boiler?  How big a boiler would one need?

Go bus size and gear down electric motors for less demand, multiple packs for further range.

How would you garage build an electric end of world rig?

I have extensive experience with this. Operates in nearly all weather conditions, fuel is readily available, and I can service it myself.

In reply to Floating Doc :

Plus it doubles as a food source if stuff really hits the fan .

stanger_missle said:

In reply to Floating Doc :

Plus it doubles as a food source if stuff really hits the fan .

Yep, can't say I've tried it, though.

Edit: that's an old photo, training at Pompano Park in about 1981. I drove my last race in 86, haven't been a horseman for many years.

In reply to Floating Doc :

Me either but I would to survive.

That reminds me of this classic:

I always thought a vehicle modified with a wood gasifier would be a pretty sustainable method of transportation. I got really into post apocalyptic survival stuff about 10 years ago. I downloaded plans to convert a pickup truck to a wood gasifier. I never did try to build one.

Anybody remember that reality TV show where a group of people had to build stuff to survive an apocalyptic event? 

Wood gas

Algae based bio diesel.

Saw some information a few years back about work on this, development of algae species optimized, methods of farming, etc. Has real possibility and pulls carbon from atmosphere.

Edit, Google shows that it's proven rather impractical for now.

Steam powered vehicle.  You can burn the bodies as fuel. 

Fuel cell vehicle with enough solar power to separate your exhaust (water) into hydrogen and compress it into the tank.  Fully closed system with solar to recoup the used energy.

Current tech would clearly require a rather large solar setup.

I've day-dreamed quite a bit about stuff like this. And since doing these calculations is basically what I do for a living... When I get into work I'll do some thumbnail calcs to estimate what size wood boiler you would need.  If you live in Appalachia, then a small coal boiler might be a more efficient option. 

Anyway - my "optimal poo-fan setup for power" would be to have property in the mountains with a water source that can be damned for hydro-electric power.  Here in the northeast/mid-Atlantic region there are quite a few existing farms that already have artificial ponds many of which were built to power old mills that could be converted into electric power generation. This would be combined with growing soy beans on the farm to be refined into biodiesel as there are already commercial products available to do this on a smaller scale.  Plus, you can grow food on the farm. Probably more than you need.

Part of a "poo-fan" scenario is being able to generate products you can use for bartering.  

stanger_missle said:

In reply to Floating Doc :

Me either but I would to survive.

That reminds me of this classic:

 

I always thought a vehicle modified with a wood gasifier would be a pretty sustainable method of transportation. I got really into post apocalyptic survival stuff about 10 years ago. I downloaded plans to convert a pickup truck to a wood gasifier. I never did try to build one.

Anybody remember that reality TV show where a group of people had to build stuff to survive an apocalyptic event? 

Economic crisis needs relabled to tuesday....

No offense but in a true TEOTWAWKI event, driving around is the least of my worries. Food, water and shelter are priorities and protecting them should be the main priority. now... making a steam boiler to power my gennie after the gasoline runs out, that would likely be important

In reply to Hungary Bill :

As I have a pile of bicycles, I just consider that a given. 

bobzilla said:

No offense but in a true TEOTWAWKI event, driving around is the least of my worries. Food, water and shelter are priorities and protecting them should be the main priority. now... making a steam boiler to power my gennie after the gasoline runs out, that would likely be important

Should be:  1. Water, 2. Shelter. 3. Food. (4. Beer?)

Towing the boiler sounds good in theory, but there's an issue. It needs water to convert to steam, water is heavy and bulky. 

My ideal situation is a defensible farm as a base, preferably not on the side of a mountain so I don't have to spend every waking moment preparing for winter, with a vehicle to get me around the local area. Most likely an electrical conversion to a suburban or bus. "But if you're not on a mountain, how are you defensible?" Old school, moat/pit and drawbridge, with tall perimeter walls around the inside. Digging a bigass trench isn't hard just time consuming. 

Since its the end of the world, I don't think the granola crowd will put up much fight when I commandeer their EVs to turn into power packs for everything. 

Home base, most likely, would be a multi functional approach. Water wheel(s), small wind turbines, fire powered generator, solar panels and converters. Most of that stuff is easy to make from easily lootable items, I see the hassle being converting the energy to charge the EV battery packs. This would make the most sense to me as battery packs are much easier to haul around than hundreds of gallons of water, and setting up from the beginning with hot swapping in mind means I can keep charged packs on the vehicle, at home base, and at other strategic locations so I can slowly push out the range the battery packs deliver.

With "passive ish" charging solutions covered, that leaves me free to scavenge more parts and farm food and other materials to live on and barter. 

Not that I've put much thought into the idea of just going full on off the grid hermit or anything like that...

RevRico said:

Not that I've put much thought into the idea of just going full on off the grid hermit or anything like that...

I will admit... I have. I could very easily be a full off the grid hermit that arrives in town once a month to get the few things I need to last me another month. I'm so over people. 

I always thought a reflective parabolic dish in a trailer with the focal point having the heat exchanger, driving a 10-20HP steam turbine in the towing vehicle would be cool.  Or hot.  A multi-stage steam turbine approaches unity in efficiency.  A 2M dish has 6^2M of surface area, so that's collecting 6KW of sun energy.  Put 2 of them on the trailer and you have around 10HP.  Now, if you wanted to go turbo-electric, that would be even cooler, err, hotter, and probably more driveable.  But now you're getting into my idea to end global cooling, or warming, or whatever with a 10HP multi-stage steam turbine powered generator.  And no one will give me a million dollars to develop it, thus ending hunger and saving the polar bears.

Alcohol is still a good option. For most of us, sugar beets grow quite well, and have a lot of potential solar power stored in them. 

And since beer is a need, that requires grains, which will also require rye so that you can convert starch to sugar without outside chemicals. I know everyone here can drink a lot, but there surely will be some leftover stuff for fuel. 

That, and be very selective with your homestead. So you can extract fuel from the ground. They exist. 

Dr. Hess said:

bobzilla said:

No offense but in a true TEOTWAWKI event, driving around is the least of my worries. Food, water and shelter are priorities and protecting them should be the main priority. now... making a steam boiler to power my gennie after the gasoline runs out, that would likely be important

Should be:  1. Water, 2. Shelter. 3. Food. (4. Beer?)

Get a still and make ethanol.  Them you can fuel your vehicle and have something to drink. 

For an end of the work scenario, I'm thinking more like this. Transportation, food and shelter are covered. Water is doable with a pretty basic solar still. 

In reply to former520 :

So... back to the OP's question... I've done a bit of digging and number crunching.  

A typical 240V faster charger needs a 10KW input.  10KW is a bit over 1 boiler horsepower (note: boiler HP is different than motor/engine HP), so you would need at least a 2 HP boiler due to efficiency losses.  There are PTO generators that will make 10KW pretty easily - those need about 20HP. However, the real tricky part is turning the steam from the boiler into mechanical force to turn that generator. My Google-fu is turning up zilch for that, so my guess is you'll have to make that from scratch, which is now past my engineering ability at this time.  

While I generally agree this is not the first thing I'd be concerned about in a poo-fan situation, it's still a fun exercise. 

Appleseed said:

Steam powered vehicle.  You can burn the bodies as fuel. 

Annoyingly, bodies don’t burn well.  Too juicy.

My EOTWAWKI go to location will be my sisters’ farm.  Single road in, surrounded on three sides by water, high ground, adjacent river already has a 5’ high damn for hydroelectric power, next door neighbor is a cattle farmer with an absurd workshop.  It’ll be a handy location.

In reply to Ian F :

See? My long-standing dream of a 10HP multi-stage steam turbine would solve your problem.  I think that after the design and tool-up costs, the Chinese could make it in the $300 range.  I mean, they make tubochargers for that.  It isn't any more complicated.

Not sure how long term a battery system is going to be. 6-10 years? What happens then? If civilization is over, Batteries + is going to be out of stock when the battery bank pukes. 

I'd be gearing down to something more mid to late 1800s. Maybe early 1900s. I'd skip the generator and go straight steam powered or simple gas powered. Collect a few tools and as much scrap as you can get your hands on and a low pressure steam powered system should last indefinitely. Fuel wise would either be wood, gas, diesel, or coal. 

I'll be at the family farm on the coast with the sail boat. Surf and turf is on the menu with a side of whatever we can grow on 400 acres. Last one across, please blow the bridge.