I need to purchase some 2 way radios. I know nothing about them. Requirements and concerns:
Thoughts?
Max range?
Hobby or pro grade?
Edit: If these are for use in Germany, you might consider shopping in Germany. Stuff that is approved by our FCC may not be approved in Germany.
Pro grade is fine (within a reasonable budget)
Not that far. Using a highly accurate eyeball measurement off google maps, I'd say we are usually all within a 500ft diameter circle. It would span inside and outside the building. I'm not sure of the construction, but I think either concrete or aluminum for walls.
Sorry for the ninja edit. You definitely want to make this purchase in Europe, or Germany, as they use a different frequency spectrum for these kinds of communications.
You mention a trade show -- is this a one-and-done, or repeating? If repeating, then is it at the same facility, or are you going to take them to different countries?
If just a one-time thing, or rotating through different countries, I would look into renting radios for the event.
Charging-wise, pro radios (say Motorola) use a charging base with small "wall-wart" power supply to convert mains AC into whatever DC the radio expects. I don't think you'll find USB charging, but those wall-warts are usually a switching power supply with fairly wide voltage range and often don't need anything more than a plug converter to run in different countries.
I agree with looking for a source in Germany. Perhaps the people who run the trade show can put you in contact with a recommended vendor?
For this? Rent! 100%. That way al of the requirements will be met and the group/ person renting will most likely have the liability on them with government agencies.
Just rent them locally. We do this as part of our business, and have dedicated licenses. You should get a better radio (versus the Amazon special). You should get a charger bank, and can even rent a set of spare batteries to get you through a busy shift.
for reference, we rent radios for $130/month. All accessories included, whatever you need. Belt holster, palm mic, ear piece, spare battery.
These are expensive, Intrinsically Safe units...suitable for a chem plant.
Business-type radios should rent for less.
How many radios are you going to need and how many days ?
Then you can figure out if its worth buying or renting .
I would guess that there are EU regulations so they work all over Europe without a problem .
Thanks. It did not occur to me to rent. I'll look into that.
i am still a little concerned about the number of channels available, vs the number of different teams in a small area, but I suppose I can ask a rental company for recommendations.
In reply to TravisTheHuman :
A good local firm will have their own frequency licenses, outside the typical "shared" public frequencies for Amazon or camping/hunting radios.
They wouldn't congest their own rental frequencies...and would space out their rental customers geographically.
Related: any experience with a phone app that claims to offer the same capabilities?
this is tempting because no/minimal cost, no extra equipment, etc. and definitely no overlapping channel issues
I have no idea how it's done in EU, but in the States you have three basic options: 1) FRS which is unlicensed and uses inexpensive radios. Think Motorola Talkabouts. The downside is that you get a limited number of channels, and anyone else with an FRS radio can hear what you broadcast and can interfere with your communication... if they're on the same channel. 2) GMRS which is the same basic frequencies but up to 2W for longer distances. Same drawbacks as FRS, plus needing an FCC license. 3) SMR/PMR or similar. This is also a licensed radio, but basically the FCC gives you your own frequency much like they do radio stations. It isn't exclusive to you, but anyone else who has your frequency is far enough away that you can't interfere with their radios. Kinda like Pittsburgh has a 97.9 FM, and so does Clarksburg WV, but they're far enough apart that it doesn't matter. There are some restrictions on how they can be used. Our radios at work are licensed, and they aren't supposed to be used more than 100' outside the building. This is the only way to get your own frequency... which can still be heard by anyone with a scanner in that band, but at least they're not licensed to broadcast on that frequency.
Long story short, do some googles on Germany/EU radio permissions. FRS is pretty universal, and the EU has their own FRS which is similar to the states, but possibly a little different. It's plausible that you could buy some Talkabouts and take them with you, or they might have slightly different protocols to adhere to over there.
Ninja edit: Don't mess around with cheap alternatives if you go the FRS route. Get Motorola Talkabouts. Industry standard. Bulletproof. Not expensive. I personally have T270 and T470 Talkabouts for family vacations and hunting, and they are excellent. I think they were $75 for a pair of them. They come with rechargeable batteries that last most of the day, or you can put AAAs in for longer life.
FRS is in the UHF realm, so even if you buy the ones that say "up to 35 miles," that means from one mountaintop to the another, at night, depending on the moon phase, humidity, and menstrual cycle, but it doesn't take much trade show traffic to absorb a lot of the signal. Depending on the size of the trade show, you might not reach someone on the far end of the building.
TravisTheHuman said:Related: any experience with a phone app that claims to offer the same capabilities?
this is tempting because no/minimal cost, no extra equipment, etc. and definitely no overlapping channel issues
I haven't used one of those apps in a while (like 5 or 6 years) but they would have had to improve exponentially for that to be an option. They rely on phone data and it can be a very laggy experience. You know how you ask a website to email you a verification code for log in and 5 minutes later it's still not in your inbox? Kinda like that. Sometimes it's instant, other times it gets lost in the ether.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:This is the only way to get your own frequency... which can still be heard by anyone with a scanner in that band, but at least they're not licensed to broadcast on that frequency.
If security is important, you can use encrypted digital radios on the licensed frequencies.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:TravisTheHuman said:Related: any experience with a phone app that claims to offer the same capabilities?
this is tempting because no/minimal cost, no extra equipment, etc. and definitely no overlapping channel issues
I haven't used one of those apps in a while (like 5 or 6 years) but they would have had to improve exponentially for that to be an option. They rely on phone data and it can be a very laggy experience. You know how you ask a website to email you a verification code for log in and 5 minutes later it's still not in your inbox? Kinda like that. Sometimes it's instant, other times it gets lost in the ether.
Theoretically the Nextel/Sprint iDEN service would have worked well for this, but AFAIK it's dead and nobody is offering anything similar any more.
Guessing there is zero cell signal where you are going?
If there is cell signal, why bother with anything else?
93gsxturbo said:Guessing there is zero cell signal where you are going?
If there is cell signal, why bother with anything else?
Yeah just get some local sims , and maybe a burner phone with all your workers numbers programmed,
I did that for my Aussie "Mates" when the visited the USA and had 4 couples ,
californiamilleghia said:93gsxturbo said:Guessing there is zero cell signal where you are going?
If there is cell signal, why bother with anything else?
Yeah just get some local sims , and maybe a burner phone with all your workers numbers programmed,
I did that for my Aussie "Mates" when the visited the USA and had 4 couples ,
Another option is Google Fi. $20/mo unlimited talk and text and it works in 181 countries. No contract, so set up your existing phones on the service and cancel the following month. (unless you're like me... I switched 6 years ago and I've loved it so much I'm still on it.)
It's also likely that the trade show will have wifi, which makes it a non-issue if you go the cell phone route.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:This is the only way to get your own frequency... which can still be heard by anyone with a scanner in that band, but at least they're not licensed to broadcast on that frequency.
If security is important, you can use encrypted digital radios on the licensed frequencies.
Yeah, but isn't that $$$$$$?
I've inquired about hiring some.
We will all have cell service, however that is not the same functionality. I (and the other 10-15 people I'm with) will need to be able to say "we need 3 people to help with crate X" or "has anyone seen crate 123" or "if anyone is close to the supply crate, please grab [item]".
I can't go calling 10-15 people individually for each of those things.
We did mess around with Zello (walkie talkie app) a bit at the shop the other day, and it wasn't bad at all. Delay was in the <50ms range. I'd prefer an actual radio for a few reasons, but if that proves difficult or extremely expensive, Zello seem liked it has 95% of the functionality and its silly cheap ($8/user/month)
There must be a German version of this: Pricey though.
All of the employees at our local ACE Hardware have them on. Like little goofy CIA agents.
Cellular phone service is designed for single-person-to-single-person conversations, where the 5-10 second overhead of setting up a call is amortized out over the minute+ you're going to spend on that conversation. That's a very different use case to the one that walkie talkies solve, which is many-to-many group chat conversation with zero overhead to join other than keying the mic.
And yes, you can implement a system like that with an app on a smartphone running over IP, but the fact that nobody seems to do it suggests to me that there are significant advantages to using dedicated hardware. Some combination of latency, ergonomics, and ruggedness probably explains it.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:californiamilleghia said:93gsxturbo said:Guessing there is zero cell signal where you are going?
If there is cell signal, why bother with anything else?
Yeah just get some local sims , and maybe a burner phone with all your workers numbers programmed,
I did that for my Aussie "Mates" when the visited the USA and had 4 couples ,
Another option is Google Fi. $20/mo unlimited talk and text and it works in 181 countries. No contract, so set up your existing phones on the service and cancel the following month. (unless you're like me... I switched 6 years ago and I've loved it so much I'm still on it.)
It's also likely that the trade show will have wifi, which makes it a non-issue if you go the cell phone route.
I checked the Google Fi page (since I knew nothing about it) and it looks like it is US only
Are your employees on company phones? If so, just activate the international plan and have them use their phones.
If they are NOT on company phones or expensed phones, then too bad so sad but also you shouldn't be expected to be able to reach them when they are not in the office. Since this is a trade show these should all be sales dicks showing up and they should all have either a company phone or an expensed phone.
Set up a group text or Teams chat with all the jabronis at the trade show and just use that. Easy peasy. OR Even easier and likely cheaper just hire the local yokels to do all your tradeshowing for you and you just show up the 2nd to last day of setup, make sure it meets your idea of a show, and get faced in the hotel bar for a few days and mingle with the booth girls.
How big of a booth is this anyway? I have built my fair share of 30x50s and 50x80s with 8-10 semis worth of stuff, oversize loads, industrial equipment under power, union riggers moving 30 ton pieces of machinery, etc etc. without needing to really talk to anyone but my boss with the odd question here or there, the local riggers who I contract, and 2 or 3 guys from my company to swing wrenches. Everything else is done in person or through phone calls with the trade show donkeys.
Honestly you are kind of overberkeleying it here, Crate 123 will either come to you, or you can have Hans and Franz continue to either stand around or assemble your booth and you can go look for it.
The booth is much much larger than those. There is a lot of product to install, a lot of crates and an absolute E36 M3 load of people working in the same area (hundreds for sure).
This is something we've identified as a way to improve communication. Standard phone calls are not what we want (it's what we've done for years and it sucks) for reasons I stated earlier.
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