Ethical Question: Forum Classifieds

Since I respect GRM'ers more than just about anyone else, I'd like to get your opinion about a little situation that I became entangled in on another forum. Here's the story:

I was trolling the For Sale section and stumbled upon an ad for something that I had been looking for for several months. It was an old ad that had been recently bumped with a post reading, "Is this still available?". It was already on page 5 when I found it.

It was kind of expensive, but it was exactly what I was looking for and represented a fair deal. I PM'd the seller and told him that I would take it at his asking price. He responded immediately, told me that it was an old ad and he had given away some of the hardware mentioned listed, but the big parts were still available, at the original price. I was a little disappointed, but it was still a good deal so I told him that I'd still take it.

Then, nothing for a few hours. I actually had to go to the bank and move a little money around and I also dropped the prices on some items that I had for sale in order to offset the cost and make some room.

When I got home, I had a private message. The guy who had revived the thread with "Is this still available?" was upset and felt that he should have had first crack at it, stating that I wouldn't have known about it if he hadn't bumped it, which was probably true. Even though he hadn't made an offer to buy it, he asked if I would do the ethical thing and step aside. He had also expressed his feelings to the seller.

After a bit of debate, I decided to contact the seller and reluctantly asked him to move me to second in line. I'll admit that part of my reasoning for doing so was to protect my own For Sale threads.

I didn't really feel bad about what I had done originally. As far as I knew, an item was available and I made an offer to buy it at full price. I may not have even read anything more than the seller's original post before I PM'd him.

So I ask, "What would GRM have done?"

...on an interesting side note, the seller just contacted me and mentioned that the other guy followed up with questions indicating that the parts may not fit his car, even though the details of the ad clearly stated what it would fit.

I do not queue up as a buyer. I make an offer and let the seller decide if he wants to accept, counter or decline in favor of another offer.

The conservative in me says that you both make offers, and the guy sells it to whomever is gonna pay him more.

But it depends on how tight the community is on that board. If you're all friends, I could definitely see it being seen as a dick move and causing drama.

But in the end, whoever is willing to part with the most money should really be the one getting to make the purchase.

The way I see it, you were looking for said item. Said item was for sale. This other dude asked if it was still available but didn't make an offer. He didn't PM the seller. You were motivated enough to PM the seller, showing that you were serious enough to take that small additional step of PM'ing as opposed to just posting. You have dibs.
I also look at it from the sellers perspective. I'm selling something on an online forum. I have many, many people asking for pics, specs, availablitiy, location, lunar alignment and tide schedules. You actually make me an offer, the other dude didn't. You have dibs. If I accpet your offer (depending on the nature of the item) and request a deposit within 24 hours or the item goes to the next guy in line.
You did the stand-up thing and stepped aside. You're a bigger man than I.

First one with the money wins.

"Is this still available" is not an offer. "Pics?" is not an offer. "I'll take it" or "Would you take xx" is an offer.

You win.

I've also been dealing with this from a sellers perspective. I had a bunch of stuff for sale. I also had some nice but large and oddly shaped pieces advertised as "FREE, will not ship".

I was bombarded with offers like "I'll make it worth your while if you you'll ship it. Just tell me how much".

"Telling them how much" required that I package it (often building a box to fit), measuring, weighing and then going online to figure out the shipping cost (and hoping it's accurate), only to get "Nah, I'll pass" or, worse yet, no response at all. It took a ton of time when all I was trying to do was give away free 911 parts.

killerkane wrote: First one with the money wins.

THAT right there is your answer. Too many people that offer and don't "flash the cash".

There are no "dibs" in the real world.

In reply to Woody: To counter that, I usually don't say I won't ship, I just say that shipping will cost some obscene amount that would actually make it worth my time. For instance, when I list wheels, I put a shipping cost of at least $2k. I figure for $2k extra, it's actually worth my time/effort to box 'em up and ship 'em out.

In reply to Woody:

I have a Volvo 240 flathood for sale. I said I would not ship. A guy from NC asked me to get a quote. I found a quick way to estimate it. Hood $100 - Shipping $650. He didn't want it after that.

Woody wrote: The guy who had revived the thread with "Is this still available?" was upset and felt that he should have had first crack at it, stating that I wouldn't have known about it if he hadn't bumped it, which was probably true.

You could just as easily found it with a 2-minute search of the forum, just like he did. There was no need for you to step aside, but if it helps maintain peace in a good forum, it's understandable.

Duke wrote:

Woody wrote: The guy who had revived the thread with "Is this still available?" was upset and felt that he should have had first crack at it, stating that I wouldn't have known about it if he hadn't bumped it, which was probably true.

You could just as easily found it with a 2-minute search of the forum, just like he did. There was no need for you to step aside, but if it helps maintain peace in a good forum, it's understandable.

I had searched many times for this. There was a spelling error on the other end.

Do not let the "bump" give him rights. Had he sent a PM he could have had a further discussion with no one knowing. The "bump" put it up top for all to see and all to action on.
Money talks, BS walks.

I think the first one with the cash gets it. Many people aren't serious buyers and if you make arrangements to buy it and send money who can complain especially if the part has been for sale for a long time. If someone is going to get upset I wouldn't worry about them as they are likely hundreds of miles away.

killerkane wrote: First one with the money wins.

I foolishly disagree. When someone says to me "I'll take it" to me means it's as good as sold, or as good as their word. I held an item for four months on someone's good word while other buyers dissipaited, silly me.

I believe Woody had dibs and the other interested party was out of line to bust your stones in a PM. Had the other guy made a definative move like commit to it, put a check in the mail or otherwise make arrangements, yeah Woody's all done and the other guy gets it, but asking if it's still available is like saying "my cousin's boyfriend's sisted wanted on a while back ...."

Say what you mean.

Mean what you say.

914Driver wrote: " Say what you mean. Mean what you say.

This. I've been running into this at work this week.

If i say i CAN do something, that means that i'm phsyically able to. It does not mean that you can skip over the rest of the necessary steps needed to implement a manual process that i would be carrying out. It does not mean that i WILL do it.

Now if i say that i WILL do something, then when the E36 M3 hits the fan because i'm doing an unapproved manual process, it's on me. But if i say that i CAN do something, and E36 M3 hits the fan, it's on you.

I think this is less a question of ethics and more a question of what you feel good about. I think you probably have a claim on it. The other buyer asked you to step down, so seems they think so too.

But it's easy to put myself on the other side of that. I don't think I'd be real happy, though I'd probably admit I should have been more savvy about it. To be honest, it depends on what it is and how badly I needed it. In most cases, I think I'd have posted "if ___ passes, I'm very interested in this".

If it was a midrange for an AR LST II I would probably do anything I could to get the damn thing no matter who's feelings I hurt. But I'd probably feel bad about it.

As the old saying goes: "You snooze, you lose." Don't waste another second thinking about it.

There's another old saying. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It's a mystery. But then there's an old saying "All mysteries are just more needles in the camel's eye". Or is that a Brian Eno lyric? Doesn't matter, I never understood what it meant anyway.

I thought that saying was "Do unto others before they have a chance to do unto you"? Or is it, "whoever has the gold makes the rules"?... hrmm... one of those.

UPDATE:

Not sure if it was Karma, luck or just some idiot on the other forum; The guy who complained, the one who failed to read the original ad, discovered that the part will not fit his car and backed out.

My payment has been sent.

Looks like this episode's worked out well in the end. For some reason I've still got two cents burning a hole in my pocket...

I don't think there was a hard right or wrong. In a perfect world, the seller would've subscribed to his FS thread, and responded to the "do you still have this?" and sorted that buyer out before Woody even got there.

I've been very happy with how things have worked out for me when sellers have worked in order of contact, and I tend to do the same. First offer of cash all too often ends up being somebody mentioning cash to get to the front of the line, at which point they decide whether or not they're actually interested.

Exceptions abound, but I'm going to stop rambling there...

EDIT: Regarding this particular thing, I'd also say that you have felt no regret if the seller had sold to you even if the other guy still wanted it. I think you did a good thing by letting the other guy have a shot, and I'd like to think I'd do the same. Bottom line: it's the seller's call.

If I were the other guy, I'd be pissed, but he has no real leg to stand on. As others have already stated "is the item still available?" is not an offer and besides, even if in some strange un-real reality it was, until the seller accepts that 1st offer...EVERYONE and ANYONE has a crack at said item.

You should feel no regrets.

If I'm acting on an old ad that I wonder about, I usually PM the person with a message that's something like "If this is still available, and you are willing to ship it to Dallas, I'm willing to pay a total of $xx including shipping and I'll eat any paypal fees."

It's worked out well so far.

Woody wrote: UPDATE: Not sure if it was Karma, luck or just some idiot on the other forum; The guy who complained, the one who failed to read the original ad, discovered that the part will not fit his car and backed out. My payment has been sent.

Keep this one filed away somewhere in the back of your mind. Now you'll get it and you can enjoy it. Well played.