Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Duke said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
But effort is far from the only thing that makes a worker valuable.
Effort is just the price of admission.
With a 3.5% unemployment rate, the price of admission is relative.
Digging a hole takes effort, but it does not take skill. He's putting a lot of effort into doing his job, yes, but he doesn't have a skill most people can't do. As you posted, even your dog can dig a hole.
Opti said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
I own a rental property in the Fort Worth market. Rents are not going down. I had no desire to raise my rent, I make good money on it, because I bought it right and did the reno myself, so Im in a really good position in it. I made good money on it, renting it well below market rates, but still at a rate I was very happy with. When my last renter moved out, my expenses went up considerably between insurance and taxes, so I raised my rates, but before I did I ran local comps. Even my realtor was surprised at how quickly they were accelerating upwards.
That is precisely why home ownership is still the gateway to wealth.
Rent you never build equity, it never gets cheaper, and the occupant never feels connected to the house.
A banker evaluates risk with those 3 things ( and others) So even if ownership on paper costs more than renting people should buy.
Have you ever seen inflation reverse itself? Maybe for a short term. But never over a lifetime.
My first house cost $27,800. This place cost $107,000 and today it's worth ? 1.5-2 million?
Denying or delaying home ownership is absolutely the wrong move.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
The comparison to racing rules is interesting. That has a some implications. Many rules in racing are to slow down cars to make it fair or inexpensive. Lets not try and slow down people economic outlook. You made a pretty terrible analogy.
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
I appreciate your effort but France isn't one of the happiest countries nor was it referenced in my article.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Your argument still stinks of "it's correct, but its not politically correct." If you dislike it use in arguments, dispute the arguments with better ones.
You say its used almost exclusively for making incorrect predictions, I challenge you to look at some of the examples of when it has been used to explain specific OBSERVABLE PHENOMENA, like when lower tax rates results in higher tax revenue. From the period of 1921-1929 the top tax rate was cut from 73% to 24% and tax revenue went from 719M to over 1B, they grew an average of 4% a year. Im not saying its always used correctly, that would be as dumb as saying its always used incorrectly, but there are plenty of examples of when it may be correct.
In reply to frenchyd :
I agree that home ownership is good. All of the studies show its good for kids, community and building wealth. We disagree on what constitutes denying or delaying home ownership. I think all the regulation and taxation is whats denying and delaying home ownership. It would appear you disagree.
I hate renting to people. I want to sell the house. I make a profit when I rent, that means that someone could buy the same house for cheaper than I rent it to them. I used to understand when down payments were bigger, but outside of one friend I am the only person in my friend group that put money down to buy a house. What stops a lot of people is bad decisions (bad credit or lots of liabilities), it worries me to rent to people that dont make fiscally sound decisions. Sure some people choose to rent, but thats the exception for sure, most people cant buy.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
I appreciate your effort but France isn't one of the happiest countries nor was it referenced in my article.
You said "It's pretty easy to make the leap that Frenchy is making." He specifically used France as his example. I addressed that as well as the example you provided.
Boost_Crazy said:A person spending hours watching their favorite YouTuber could invest that time in themselves expanding their education. The choices are already there.
Or for that matter, spending hours posting on message boards. 
Steve_Jones said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Duke said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
But effort is far from the only thing that makes a worker valuable.
Effort is just the price of admission.
With a 3.5% unemployment rate, the price of admission is relative.
Digging a hole takes effort, but it does not take skill. He's putting a lot of effort into doing his job, yes, but he doesn't have a skill most people can't do. As you posted, even your dog can dig a hole.
My Siberian Husky could dig a trench and my Border Collie could survey it and file for all required permits. My neighbor's Pug couldn't dig himself out of his own dog dish and the Chihuahua across the street is even more useless.
People are like that too. Even good laborers are hard to find and worth the money.
Opti said:In reply to frenchyd :
I agree that home ownership is good. All of the studies show its good for kids, community and building wealth. We disagree on what constitutes denying or delaying home ownership. I think all the regulation and taxation is whats denying and delaying home ownership. It would appear you disagree.
I hate renting to people. I want to sell the house. I make a profit when I rent, that means that someone could buy the same house for cheaper than I rent it to them. I used to understand when down payments were bigger, but outside of one friend I am the only person in my friend group that put money down to buy a house. What stops a lot of people is bad decisions (bad credit or lots of liabilities), it worries me to rent to people that dont make fiscally sound decisions. Sure some people choose to rent, but thats the exception for sure, most people cant buy.
D
Well we agree completely on that. Mistakes or events such as health issues, divorce, company failing, etc. yes some of those there might be a matter of choice ( who you marry, why, when or who you go to work for etc. can properly delay/ deny home ownership.
But it is my humble opinion that if the banks had done proper due diligence instead of going for the quick Buck of closing the loan. The housing crisis of 2008, The zero down approach would have been successful. In short the whole affair is the fault of banks.
It seems that once a foreclosure occurs on a persons credit report no matter how good the finical picture is now they will be denied home ownership. You can still buy a car but not a home.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Steve_Jones said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Duke said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
But effort is far from the only thing that makes a worker valuable.
Effort is just the price of admission.
With a 3.5% unemployment rate, the price of admission is relative.
Digging a hole takes effort, but it does not take skill. He's putting a lot of effort into doing his job, yes, but he doesn't have a skill most people can't do. As you posted, even your dog can dig a hole.
My Siberian Husky could dig a trench and my Border Collie could survey it and file for all required permits. My neighbor's Pug couldn't dig himself out of his own dog dish and the Chihuahua across the street is even more useless.
People are like that too. Even good laborers are hard to find and worth the money.
We agree on that. Good labor is hard to get but not hard to find.
Bus companies are having great success with Africans. Yes some Muslim Africans who manage to get to America. Plus Health care industry is being propped up from Africa as well
Diligent, hard working, intelligent, and thoughtful. Listening to the. Stories they tell it's unbelievably hard and expensive to get here. Once here they aren't going to mess up or take it easy.
We may not let in the Americans from Central & South America But those Muslims from Africa seem to be great workers.
Historically America has. Always prospered on the backs of recent immigrants.
frenchyd said:Opti said:In reply to frenchyd :
I agree that home ownership is good. All of the studies show its good for kids, community and building wealth. We disagree on what constitutes denying or delaying home ownership. I think all the regulation and taxation is whats denying and delaying home ownership. It would appear you disagree.
I hate renting to people. I want to sell the house. I make a profit when I rent, that means that someone could buy the same house for cheaper than I rent it to them. I used to understand when down payments were bigger, but outside of one friend I am the only person in my friend group that put money down to buy a house. What stops a lot of people is bad decisions (bad credit or lots of liabilities), it worries me to rent to people that dont make fiscally sound decisions. Sure some people choose to rent, but thats the exception for sure, most people cant buy.
D
Well we agree completely on that. Mistakes or events such as health issues, divorce, company failing, etc. yes some of those there might be a matter of choice ( who you marry, why, when or who you go to work for etc. can properly delay/ deny home ownership.
But it is my humble opinion that if the banks had done proper due diligence instead of going for the quick Buck of closing the loan. The housing crisis of 2008, The zero down approach would have been successful. In short the whole affair is the fault of banks.
It seems that once a foreclosure occurs on a persons credit report no matter how good the finical picture is now they will be denied home ownership. You can still buy a car but not a home.
The 2008 crisis was not the fault of the banks "looking for a quick buck" it's the fault of the regulators requiring the banks to approve loans with lower down payments, and lower credit scores. If they didn't they got sued for discriminating against poor people. After all, everyone "deserved" a loan, right?
frenchyd said:Listening to the. Stories they tell it's unbelievably hard and expensive to get here. Once here they aren't going to mess up or take it easy.
We may not let in the Americans from Central & South America But those Muslims from Africa seem to be great workers.
Historically America has. Always prospered on the backs of recent immigrants.
We let in plenty of ones from central and South America the legal (and as you noted expensive) way. It's the ones not going through the proper channels many people have an issue with. No 0ne has an issue with legal immigration.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
The "regulators" were "told" by the banks that if they failed to approve the loan they would use the 2 other rating companies. Each one competing for the same business.
I hope you understand that the rating companies that approved* loans were private companies not Government agency's? * they actually rated loan packages and valued the property in question. But unless they valued it at what the bank was asking for the bank would switch agency's
There was never any Government regulation ordering all loans be approved. That is an internet myth that with a minimum of research is quickly debased.
What actually happened is banks found the profit in loan origination fees they could tack onto the loan and then quickly bundle the loans and sell them to Fanny Mae or other investors. Thus avoiding the traditional self regulation when it was their money on the line.
So yes it was Bankers greed.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
You realize you are arguing with fabricated "facts" again?
You fell for it again. 
In reply to frenchyd :
Why are you so obsessed with blaming one group of people for the faults of everyone?
Yes, there was greed. All around. Everyone was greedy. And part of that greed was the BUYERS who desperately wanted to buy houses they could NOT afford.
Homeownership is NOT for everyone, and not everyone gets a bigger/ fancier house in a neighborhood they can't afford.
There. I'm doing it too.
In reply to SV reX :
You're right, haven't had coffee yet. At this point, I'm just going to bow out of this thread. I'll be back when the new "not fair" one starts in 6 months to ask yet again, what the complainers have done to help themselves in those 6 months.
In reply to SV reX :
I agree that there was plenty of greed all around. Yes home buyers too. Not all of them just wanted a place to call home.
But First Bankers begged for deregulation. ( They started it ;-) Attempt at humor)
I'm as guilty as the next person. I was extremely close to paying off my home when the loan officer we'd been using for 2 decades suggested I remodel my house- increase its value. Well you all know the story.
When the Banks got the deregulation they were begging ( and bribing politicians) for. Banks who are supposed to approve loans based on their due diligence because it is their money on the line quickly learned from each other to collect the loan origination fee and sell the package on to private or public investors.
Result? 7-8 trillion dollars out of the global economy.
Take the Banker's greed out of that story and the recession of 08 doesn't happen.
In reply to frenchyd :
Ok, except Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were created by CONGRESS, and their stated purpose is to create liquidity in the residential mortgage lending market.
The thing you are complaining about is exactly what they were designed to do. Make money available to lend to more mortgages.
It's a result of government, not the banks. The only thing the banks did was act exactly the way government wanted them to.
FNMA has existed since 1938. I don't see how you equate the 2008 housing collapse to FNMA...
...unless you are actually saying bankers talked FDR into it.
frenchyd said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Steve_Jones said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Duke said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
But effort is far from the only thing that makes a worker valuable.
Effort is just the price of admission.
With a 3.5% unemployment rate, the price of admission is relative.
Digging a hole takes effort, but it does not take skill. He's putting a lot of effort into doing his job, yes, but he doesn't have a skill most people can't do. As you posted, even your dog can dig a hole.
My Siberian Husky could dig a trench and my Border Collie could survey it and file for all required permits. My neighbor's Pug couldn't dig himself out of his own dog dish and the Chihuahua across the street is even more useless.
People are like that too. Even good laborers are hard to find and worth the money.
We agree on that. Good labor is hard to get but not hard to find.
Bus companies are having great success with Africans. Yes some Muslim Africans who manage to get to America. Plus Health care industry is being propped up from Africa as well
Diligent, hard working, intelligent, and thoughtful. Listening to the. Stories they tell it's unbelievably hard and expensive to get here. Once here they aren't going to mess up or take it easy.We may not let in the Americans from Central & South America But those Muslims from Africa seem to be great workers.
Historically America has. Always prospered on the backs of recent immigrants.
What countries are these Muslims from Africa from? Saying "from Africa" isn't concise though highlighting their religion is.
In reply to yupididit :
Are you saying his comments are imprecise??
Huh. Go figger...
In reply to SV reX :
I should know better lol.
Being from Africa and being Muslim doesn't really give any information on their culture. Not enough to understand why he highlights them specifically for immigrants who pass his work ethic test.
In reply to yupididit :
Makes me wonder if Muslims from South America would be worth looking into.
...or maybe African Hindus.
Regardless, it's berkeleying idiotic.
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