One of the lead engineers just pled guilty. One has to assume he is spilling the beans on the whole sordid affair.
One of the lead engineers just pled guilty. One has to assume he is spilling the beans on the whole sordid affair.
This is why I find it so confusing that they did this in the first place.
And why we are so very, very, very paranoid of doing the same thing, even by accident.
I didn't realize they did it for 9 years.
The part of this that makes no sense to me is that this is not the first time this has happened. Back in 1998 nearly all of the large truck diesel engine manufactures did essentially the same thing. It was at the time the largest tampering penalty ever by the EPA and was against Cat, Detroit Diesel, Navistar, Cummins, Mack, Volvo, and Renault.
Any calibration or compliance engineer would certainly know of this story. Seems pretty arrogant or painfully stupid to me.
If this statement is true.
"If the Gen 1 goes onto the roller at the CARB, then we’ll have nothing more to laugh about!!!!!"
I really hope they fry VW and all those that were "Laughing" at I assume the US customers, the US people who they were poisoning, CARB and the EPA. They have proven a level of "I don't give a flying you know what" that needs to be hammered out of existence. I think the by back should be re-looked at and the values of the cars increased even further. Meanwhile, all of us that were breathing all the crap they were "dumping" out the tailpipe here in the US (and still are) we get nothing for it.
Up until I read that quote from the email that I noted above I did not care much about this whole thing but being laughed at by VW is the equivalent of them giving all of us here in the US the one fingered solute. I now want them to be hammered out of existence.
To me it proves that there was a completely Toxic corporate environment at VW that was propagated from the top and as such the whole things needs to go away. Another thing I hope they do is to go after the people at the top of the VW food chain on a personal level. What good will a 2-3 year prison sentence do to someone if they are sitting on huge amounts of personal wealth that they can then go live out the rest of their lives without a care in the world. I would like to see corporate accountability on the personal level as well as on the corporate side.
dean1484 wrote: Meanwhile, all of us that were breathing all the crap they were "dumping" out the tailpipe here in the US (and still are) we get nothing for it.
The emissions from these cars is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things, any damages citizens may have incurred is nil. If you weren't speaking of payouts to individuals, either through punitive damages or health-related damages, we (all US citizens) actually will be receiving compensation from VW, assuming your State agrees to the terms of the settlement and becomes a beneficiary.
One interesting note- this article is only about cars sold in the US. One must not forget that VW put this on ALL of their cars, not just one destined for the US market. It cheated the EU standards, too. And any other place around the world that has a market with requirments. (including China)
Apis Mellifera wrote:dean1484 wrote: Meanwhile, all of us that were breathing all the crap they were "dumping" out the tailpipe here in the US (and still are) we get nothing for it.The emissions from these cars is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things, any damages citizens may have incurred is nil. If you weren't speaking of payouts to individuals, either through punitive damages or health-related damages, we (all US citizens) actually will be receiving compensation from VW, assuming your State agrees to the terms of the settlement and becomes a beneficiary.
I hear you but it still does not change how annoyed I am that they were actually laughing at us. Them dumb Americans and there standards we really pulled one over on them.
A big fu to VW. I hope they crash and burn. I am a huge Porsche and Audi fan but this has tainted my like for them as well.
All I can say is everyone has and is in some way doing it, lets not forget BMW and chevy both have lawsuits pending against them as well.
Just sucks this will set back diesels again in the US for many years.
JtspellS wrote: All I can say is everyone has and is in some way doing it, lets not forget BMW and chevy both have lawsuits pending against them as well. Just sucks this will set back diesels again in the US for many years.
Why? They have the same standards to meet as before, and the same tech will need to be used to make it work.
VW was faking it the whole time, so cheap diesels may not be available. But others who sell right now (BMW and Mercedes) are quite real and ok.
In reply to alfadriver:
They are, in fact would love to get a 335d as a daily.
Issue I see is the american public will associate any modern diesel with this scandal as the public did with the 80's diesels and it will take a long time to recover because most manifucatures will be scared as hell to bring diesel vehicles over here.
TBH I hope I'm wrong though.
alfadriver wrote:JtspellS wrote: All I can say is everyone has and is in some way doing it, lets not forget BMW and chevy both have lawsuits pending against them as well. Just sucks this will set back diesels again in the US for many years.Why? They have the same standards to meet as before, and the same tech will need to be used to make it work. VW was faking it the whole time, so cheap diesels may not be available. But others who sell right now (BMW and Mercedes) are quite real and ok.
There is no proof. Lawyers trying to make $$$$
Scott_H wrote: The part of this that makes no sense to me is that this is not the first time this has happened. Back in 1998 nearly all of the large truck diesel engine manufactures did essentially the same thing. It was at the time the largest tampering penalty ever by the EPA and was against Cat, Detroit Diesel, Navistar, Cummins, Mack, Volvo, and Renault. Any calibration or compliance engineer would certainly know of this story. Seems pretty arrogant or painfully stupid to me.
Having worked at Cummins during the run up to the 2007 emissions change.. Yes. You would be stupid not to listen to history.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote:alfadriver wrote:There is no proof. Lawyers trying to make $$$$JtspellS wrote: All I can say is everyone has and is in some way doing it, lets not forget BMW and chevy both have lawsuits pending against them as well. Just sucks this will set back diesels again in the US for many years.Why? They have the same standards to meet as before, and the same tech will need to be used to make it work. VW was faking it the whole time, so cheap diesels may not be available. But others who sell right now (BMW and Mercedes) are quite real and ok.
? I'm not following.
JtspellS wrote: In reply to alfadriver: They are, in fact would love to get a 335d as a daily. Issue I see is the american public will associate any modern diesel with this scandal as the public did with the 80's diesels and it will take a long time to recover because most manifucatures will be scared as hell to bring diesel vehicles over here. TBH I hope I'm wrong though.
I don't see that as a problem. The American public is the same as the European public- they buy cars mostly with their wallets. So if diesels were the cheapest car to own, more would get them. With the additional issue of knowing where to get gas.
And I don't see anyone being anymore scared of bringing a car here- if you can make the numbers, you can make the numbers. The biggest issue, which Europe will find out over the next 5 years or so, making diesels clean is very expensive. Possible, but expensive. The EU has figured out this is really important when they see the haze over Paris, Rome, Milan, and Berlin. I've predicted it many times- I think for cars Camry/Accord/Fusion and smaller, the only makers will end up being BMW and Mercedes- as they can charge the premium required to pay for it.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: There is no proof. Lawyers trying to make $$$$
Measurements and confessions. What lack of proof are you talking about?
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Fueled by Caffeine wrote: There is no proof. Lawyers trying to make $$$$Measurements and confessions. What lack of proof are you talking about?
For BMW? Please provide a source.. I'm not aware.
The BMW lawsuits were mostly rumors and the same with the MB ones.. Ohh.. look we tested something in a different test that is not the standard test and it failed.. See.. you're like VW..
In reply to alfadriver:
Basically some people road tested some cars, they came back as not being compliant with the standardized emissions testing... News reports ensued and lawyers went nuts.. There are lawsuits out there, but in my opinion they are lead by shady lawyers trying to piggyback off of the VW stuff.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:
Oh. Well, those won't have any traction unless the EPA and FBI step in.
Which they may, but not because BMW cheated, but that the off cycle emissions suck. Which would put BMW into some trouble, but nowhere NEAR VW.
Plus, as it turns out, with the new on road cert testing that the EU is requiring, will taken care of soon, IF it's actually an issue.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:
I misred what you said, I thought you were still talking VW
In a weird way, this may actually help the hybrid cars like the Volt and the Prius. Does VW have a hybrid car for the general public? I know Porsche does.
In reply to dean1484:
VW has both hybrids and electric versions depending on the model.
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