Ran across this from a story about a Cybertruck suffering some kind of severe steering and braking failure:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/cybertruck-steering-brakes-fail
The steering has multiple redundant electronic systems and an independent backup battery, but no mechanical backup connection like Infiniti's steer-by-wire. And it seems that even with all those backups one had a total failure today...it's a bit unfortunate that the first vehicle to have this kind of steering is a particularly huge, heavy, and sharp pickup.
I suspect that a 2.6 second 0-60 and 6600 lbs may be a factor in these crashes. The second article is almost definitely that. The first is a lawyer who may or may not be telling the truth. I look forward to the investigation.
There's a lot of really interesting tech in the Cybertruck, like the 48V subsystems and of course the steering. Most of that is overlooked by the polarizing aspect of the vehicle, but it's paying for the R&D. I know some people inside Tesla think it's the dumbest thing but they got to build the tech.
Not even an off brand PlayStation controller connected with Bluetooth?
At least they're upfront about the fact that this one can only be used as a boat briefly.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
Most things can, until they're used as submarines...
In reply to WonkoTheSane :
Everything is a boat if you are brave enough?
I mean.....that's kinda the saying
californiamilleghia said:
Here is another one that crashed in Beverly Hills
https://gizmodo.com/tesla-cybertruck-crashes-into-the-beverly-hills-hotel-s-1851307260
That story sounds sketchy. Since it appears the owner of the truck may have been trying to blame it on a valet, I wonder what he's trying to hide...maybe he had one too many martinis in the hotel bar.
"Move fast and break things."
tuna55
MegaDork
3/5/24 8:27 a.m.
I think it's possible, though expensive and unlikely to create appreciable gains, to make a drive-by-wire system as safe as a mechanical system, but it would require a lot of work and backup systems.
I absolutely do not trust Tesla to design said system, implement it, nor even decide if it's a good idea.
Beer Baron 🍺 said:
"Move fast and break things."
God I hate this in my soul.
j_tso
Dork
3/5/24 9:13 a.m.
dang, I thought it had some whiz tech that had individual motors steering each wheel but it's just a remote controlled steering rack.
ShawnG
MegaDork
3/5/24 9:27 a.m.
A solution to a problem that nobody had.
I thought most engineers knew that often, the simplest, least complicated solution is the best one.
tuna55 said:
I think it's possible, though expensive and unlikely to create appreciable gains, to make a drive-by-wire system as safe as a mechanical system, but it would require a lot of work and backup systems.
I absolutely do not trust Tesla to design said system, implement it, nor even decide if it's a good idea.
Yeah, haven't airliners been fly-by-wire for years now? It can be done. Then again, if you throw enough money and resources at an engineering problem, just about anything is doable.
And I share your skepticism about Tesla being the ones to do it.
ShawnG said:
A solution to a problem that nobody had.
I thought most engineers knew that often, the simplest, least complicated solution is the best one.
When your CEO is a psychopath, sometimes the engineers with this mindset get overruled. (or ridiculed, or forced out)
Fly-by-wire makes sense in an aircraft though. Running mechanical linkages from a cockpit to all control surfaces is complicated and presents lots of opportunities for failure.
An electric car... the front wheels are a few feet away. You can easily draw a straight line from the steering wheel to the steering rack with nothing in the way. Hell, there's more crap in the way in an ICE car!
Flying is also generally a lot more forgiving of input errors. I.e. if you suddenly take the controls and yank them to full lock for 2/10 of a second, you're probably not going to hit anything. Same if you input a control and *nothing* happens, you've got time to reboot a system before catastrophe.
You can't do that in a car.
tuna55
MegaDork
3/5/24 10:21 a.m.
Beer Baron 🍺 said:
Fly-by-wire makes sense in an aircraft though. Running mechanical linkages from a cockpit to all control surfaces is complicated and presents lots of opportunities for failure.
An electric car... the front wheels are a few feet away. You can easily draw a straight line from the steering wheel to the steering rack with nothing in the way. Hell, there's more crap in the way in an ICE car!
Flying is also generally a lot more forgiving of input errors. I.e. if you suddenly take the controls and yank them to full lock for 2/10 of a second, you're probably not going to hit anything. Same if you input a control and *nothing* happens, you've got time to reboot a system before catastrophe.
You can't do that in a car.
Right. It could be done, but it doesn't make sense as a logical solution to the problem. It's like lasers as windshield wipers. You could do it, but it would be expensive and stupid.
tuna55 said:
Right. It could be done, but it doesn't make sense as a logical solution to the problem. It's like lasers as windshield wipers. You could do it, but it would be expensive and stupid.
I remember Sandy Munro dinging the Ford Mach E for still having side view mirrors instead of cameras. Never made one bit of sense to me. Why replace something simple and proven with something more expensive and failure-prone? I get that there's an aero advantage, but really? How much can it be?
Tesla is very much a mixed bag in my opinion. It's clear that they are a tech company first and a car company second. That, and that whole "move fast and break stuff" mentality does pay dividends in some ways. You can't deny that they've pushed the state of the art in EVs forward faster than anyone. There's no way we'd have the genuinely excellent EVs from the legacy automakers that we do right now if Tesla hadn't pushed the envelope.
But then they go and try to fix problems that don't exist, simply for the sake of doing things differently. And their autonomous stuff is very problematic, IMO. Setting aside the false claims, the faked videos, the unkept promises, and everything else, the fact that they insist on beta testing their software on public roads with untrained drivers is a huge issue for me.
I would imagine that steering is considered safety critical. So there are some pretty heavy back up requirements to deal with faults.
When we were originally developing electronic throttle, we had planned triple redundancy for all of the sensor sets to constantly monitor it- and it still needed a separate computer to monitor it. The state of the art now is just two sensors for the pedal and throttle systems.
No idea for steering- but since you can't ever shut it off while moving, it seems that it's a pretty tough system to set up.
'Tis all baseless slander, as market manipulators work to create for themselves a buying opportunity!
stuart in mn said:
californiamilleghia said:
Here is another one that crashed in Beverly Hills
https://gizmodo.com/tesla-cybertruck-crashes-into-the-beverly-hills-hotel-s-1851307260
That story sounds sketchy. Since it appears the owner of the truck may have been trying to blame it on a valet, I wonder what he's trying to hide...maybe he had one too many martinis in the hotel bar.
This corner is haunted for shiny cars !
Back in the summer a fully polished aluminum Cobra Daytona was hit on the same corner !
j_tso
Dork
3/5/24 1:15 p.m.
Beer Baron 🍺 said:
An electric car... the front wheels are a few feet away. You can easily draw a straight line from the steering wheel to the steering rack with nothing in the way. Hell, there's more crap in the way in an ICE car!
I was thinking if the rack was done away with altogether the Ackerman angle could be variable on the fly. Or toe could be active so wheels don't follow ruts in the road.
