<= get rid of that <=

As I said in another thread, I'm on a lot of other automotive and industry message boards, and other than the few that have used the ubiquitous vBulletin layout, all have been and are different in layout and look. This is simply another in the realm of message board looks, and as far as message boards go, it's actually quite clean. I have no problem with the navigation sidebar on my machine, even when it's just opened in a smaller window (which is how it usually is at work). And aren't we glad none of them look like the old ASCII bulletin boards? :grin:

What is GRM supposed to do? Give everyone their own individual message board? The important part is the messages themselves...

How about some sidebar space: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/

It isn't just the sidebar and the "attitude" hasn't been just from Tim B. It seems to have come from just about everyone from Tim S. on down. WE didn't decide to roll out a new web forum in the midst of the busy season, you did.

All the hub bub has been an unintended consequence of a change that you guys were hoping to be met with open arms. When we didn't view the changes with awe you all got defensive and dictatorial. And while it is your right to put this together anyway you want, it is also our right to bitch if it is intended for our use rather than just your on personal use.

A forum doesn't make money just by virtue of being a forum (other than S2ki and it sux), it has other purposes. For GRM the other purposes is the community that it builds and THAT is what makes the money.

My point is that attitude is diluting the glue of that community and it is having unintended consequences with much longer term problems than being civil and at least pretending to listen to and accomodating to some degree your intended market.

Underneath this may be a technological marvel that solves ALL of your problems, but on the surface the interface with real subscription paying (and advertising supporting) people is less than perfect. I am sure you didn't expect it to be perfect and you are a little miffed that we all seem to be ingrates. Sorry bout that, but we're only human.

I am not one of those guys who hates change, but I am one of those that expects a change to be an improvement and not simply a change.

I have hardly said a thing prior to this thread, I have simply not frequented the forum much. Discount the threads bitching about the format and look at your post count/hits, are there a lot like me that have just cut way back on GRM? If you have all the hits you want then tell us all to go to hell and we will.

The side bar problem is basically one of readability. The side bar width and forum minimum width is wider than many of our screen widths. The text rolls off the right hand side and we have to scroll side to side as well as up and down. This makes it very hard to read. That shouldn't be a hard fix, simply make the forum width able to go narrower and voila the new collective size will fit window sizes better. It just that it would make the forum appear to be an afterthought to another advertising page. As someone else said, it's the messages that count.

As far as the B cup being a problem, well they say that anything over a mouthful is wasted. So how big is your mouth? C cup? D cup? EEE?

My mama always told me my eyes were always bigger than my mouth. That might be the case here. Now go in there pat your wife on the head, tell her you love her and then let her wonder what you did wrong.

Geez carguy, tell us how ya feel. :whatthe:

Hey, it took me a few minutes to get used to as well but now I kinda like the new setup. So it's different. On the scale of things in my life that have a real impact, irritate me or piss me off, the new message board format ranks about a -2.

Maybe it's time for you to examine your priorities in life rather than pitch an online hissy fit because the sidebar's too wide for your application. (Where's the rolleyes emoticon when ya need it?)

EDIT: The 15" screen at work, 17" desktop at home and 15.4" laptop all work just fine for me.

I'm not a fan of the sidebar either but I hear Baxter when he's saying the previous msg board had some issues that went unseen. I trust that's true. Being in I.T. myself I know that off the shelf software ain't perfect. My luxury is I'm the user this time. :cool:

So far as the change goes...why would anyone take on a huge undertaking if it were unnecessary?

Hooray for Boobies. :nice:

carguy123 wrote: All the hub bub has been an unintended consequence of a change that you guys were hoping to be met with open arms. When we didn't view the changes with awe you all got defensive and dictatorial.

No, we got defensive when people started personal attacks. If a few folks who were providing legitimate feedback and constructive criticism were made to feel the heat generated by those attacks, again I apologize. We're only human, too.

carguy123 wrote: I am not one of those guys who hates change, but I am one of those that expects a change to be an improvement and not simply a change.

But is is an improvement. Baxter can fill you in on more of the details I'm sure, but you have to realize that the old site was purely smoke and mirrors. There was a very real possibility of it going into an unrecoverable death spiral at any moment. You may not like this one as much to look at, but it sure beats a smoking hole in the internet. The architecture of the new site also allows us room to expand and grow into new and additional content, rather than tacking it on like we were doing with the old site.

We can't ask anyone to love everything about the change. We can ask them to stick with it for a while, and remember why you come here in the first place. We're all working hard to make this fun.

jg

I can see where a lot of people are coming from with the sidebar comments. However, I like the videos on the beginning page, as well as an organized readers' rides section. The internet grows at an amazing pace; every once an a while a site needs a new skin.

"This parrot is no more!" :evil:

You know what would be awesome on the left hand side? A game of Tetris. This seems like the appropriate place to put this. If anyone complains about Tetris, well, you can send them to Russia.

In case I haven't been clear, I don't have any complaint about the side bar existing. My complaint is that it is more than 1/4 the width of the screen. If it was exactly half its current width, I'd be happier than Per clinching TTD at nationals or yumping a Saab over a Neon into a pit of Mrs. T's Pierogies.

I'm worried that the site is still giving people display problems, and we'll need to look into making it resizable, but I'm more concerned that anyone is reading this as us not being concerned or being sellouts.

Trust me, this ugly tiff wouldn't have been able to ruin my holiday weekend if we didn't care, and if we had sold out, the mounting pressure of figuring out how I was going to finish an issue and then get my office boxed, loaded onto the moving truck, and then unboxed and unloaded next week wouldn't exist--we'd have real movers and I could just point.

We're still listening, but we are human. We're probably overstressed and underdiplomatic. (But how ironic is it that some folks scream and accuse us of being corporate 'bots for showing the very frailties that prove we're just regular humans?) Yes, we get tired and snippy. No, it's not perfect yet. Yes, we're working hard. No, it doesn't always go as planned. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum for the next projects...

We're not going to stop working on the site. We NEED to address some functionality issues first, and we also have have have to get moved and our feet back under us. Don't read that as not caring--read it as slammed. And perhaps you could even possibly show us some of the listening skills and compassion you're demanding (quite rudely in some cases).

Building this community was a cooperative effort, and it needs to remain so. We ALL need to remember that.

Margie

edit: Oh, and happy b-day lazydogbx. (Baxter, you suck and all, but thanks for adding that neat little feature.)

I worked as a flight attendant for a couple of years, and I found that the less people paid for their ticket, the more demanding and irrational they were about their expected level of service.

It's a free board! If you don't like it, start your own. If you find that it's the interface that makes the board, then perhaps you need to read somewhere else if you get all wound up about a 250 pixel strip down the side. But if you find it's the community that matters, then perhaps it's worth sticking with a layout that perhaps you don't feel is ideal.

If you want to make changes, work with the guys at GRM. Give constructive criticism personally, don't post to the board bitching incessantly. Remember that you're dealing with a human being, and one that's put a lot of time and effort into the board design - so make sure your comments aren't taken as personal attacks or they won't end up being constructive. Think of it this way - how you would like a bunch of strangers following you around at work all day and telling you how you're doing everything wrong, then jumping all over you when you get a little defensive?

Changing the layout of the site would take a bunch of time on Tim's part, time that could be spent doing more useful things. And he has his reasons for sticking with the design he has, and has said so. If your membership in this community so tenuous that you view this as a corporate sellout, then I might suggest that perhaps you weren't such a member after all. A corporate sellout would happen when you saw a "Primedia" banner at the top and no participation on the board by any member of the staff. You wouldn't hear from the web designer on anything, and the requests you make (such as the addition of page counts on the topic listing, for example) would not even be acknowledged.

If you have to scroll sideways to read the board, that's a bug. Let Tim know the specs of the machine you're working on (OS, browser, screen size) and he'll probably fix it. The site's designed to take your screen width into account and change the display accordingly. I know I can run my own browser window at just about any width and it'll deal with that.

Actually, Tim's exchanged several e-mails with carguy123 today trying to walk him through his issues.

Sure wish we hadn't sold out...

Margie

Selling out means you're rich now right? The easy living the magazine industry promised you is finally here!

:twisted:

I would like to have a green screen with a single line and a blinking cursor.

No stupid pictures, none of this fancy shmancy HTML crap, psinach and sparks for me.

If you leave it the way it is you are a sell out and earn your income from those terrible people who buy ad space on that HTML filled world.

And you cut down too many trees, we need you to print only one magazine and it will be mailed from customer to customer every month.

Personally, I don't care for the sidebar either but it is what it is (I kind of go along with John Brown...the fewer flashy features the better.)

I expect people will continue to complain about it; I frequent the Fine Homebuilding magazine forum, and two or three years ago they updated their website to include a much larger logo at the top of the page that always stays there, it doesn't disappear off the top of the screen when you scroll. To this day there are some people still complaining.

The one thing that has been a bother here is the new site has been very slow to load and to navigate (both at home and on my work computer, so it's not isolated.) Plus, I keep getting the car-on-fire screen when I try to post. However, I assume these are simply growing pains while getting the the whole thing running.

I demand that the website be changed to 3D, and a pair of 3D glasses be included with every copy of the magazine next month.

Or else you're sellouts.

:omg:

Xceler8x wrote: Selling out means you're rich now right? The easy living the magazine industry promised you is finally here! :twisted:

Yes. Not only am I rich, but I have been transported to a utopian future as well, so today I drove to work in my fancy flying car, and all my clothes look like they're made of aluminum foil.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote:\ ...all my clothes look like they're made of aluminum foil. Margie

Sounds hot.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: ...all my clothes look like they're made of aluminum foil.

Hey, I have a hat that would match your outfit.:grin:

Sorry Margie, in a REAL Utopian world the beautiful people like you (and Wally of course) would wear no clothes.

John Brown wrote: I would like to have a green screen with a single line and a blinking cursor. No stupid pictures, none of this fancy shmancy HTML crap, psinach and sparks for me. If you leave it the way it is you are a sell out and earn your income from those terrible people who buy ad space on that HTML filled world. And you cut down too many trees, we need you to print only one magazine and it will be mailed from customer to customer every month.

Just for you... if you're on a browser that supports stylesheet switching, select "quasimofo" On Firefox, that's under view/page style/quasimofo

It ain't perfect, but I was only willing to put about 3 minutes into it.

Tim Baxter wrote: It ain't perfect, but I was only willing to put about 3 minutes into it.

And if that doesn't say love, then what does?

David S. Wallens wrote:

Tim Baxter wrote: It ain't perfect, but I was only willing to put about 3 minutes into it.

And if that doesn't say love, then what does?

Hey, three minutes is more than I put into most jokes.

Tim Baxter wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote:

Tim Baxter wrote: It ain't perfect, but I was only willing to put about 3 minutes into it.

And if that doesn't say love, then what does?

Hey, three minutes is more than I put into most jokes.

Heck, that's more than I put into sex.

Oh, I'm using that style from now on. It's the perfect combination of illegibility and impossible navigation.

And look, the sidebar's gone!

(posted using the quasimofo style sheet)