Good pressure treated lumber?

So, I rebuilt the deck 5-7 years ago. I've got parts that are rotting out again. Lumber was all sourced from Lowe's. 

I'm talking 2x12, 2x4, etc. To the 5/4 decking boards. 

Who makes good pressure treated now? 

I don't know the name, but somebody does, because there's one lumber yard around here that carries it. The good contractors I know swear by it.

That said, I don't think you'll ever find stuff as good as the old toxic stuff that lasted forever.

I would suggest that the lumber is not the whole problem, but rather holding moisture somehow. A deck is particularly difficult. Water must be kept out or drained away. Areas that collect moisture need to have a way to dry. Trapped moisture will shorten the life of any lumber and pressure treating is not a panacea, but more like a delayer of failure. 

Where are your failures occurring and is the current deck pressure treated? Also, local climate will have a lot to say how to best build a wood deck. Where are you?

Dusterbd13 said:

Lumber was all sourced from Lowe's. 

Are there any locally-owned lumber yards nearby?

Big box stores have their place, but you might find higher quality lumber at a place where reputation matters more than quarterly earnings and TOS reports.

Apologies if that sounded accusatory or cynical. I'm a little distracted and am having trouble choosing my words right now.

Ill grab pictures in a few, but central north carolina near Charlotte, used pressure treated from Lowes amd was painted with exterior latex since dry, no obvious drain problems noted since the primary rotted spots currently found are the railings and stair runners. 

Composite decking. Buy once, cry once, but it will last. A quick search shows $20 vs $32. Worth it in my opinion but still sux that you need to re-do something so quickly.

In reply to lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) :

It's not the surface I'm having repeat trouble with. It's the framing. Which they don't make composite for yet to my knowledge. 

Pictures of my big deck (Giggity)

From the driveway up the sidewalk 

The downhill side of the stairs

From the uphill side, you can see the rot on the outside runner on the second flight

Close up of the runner

And the railing on the landing 

Overall from the uphill side

I replaced all the stairs and runners 5-7 years ago. All the railing, and some of the deck boards. After pressure washing a few weeks ago the rot was found, and its almost all centered on what I just replaced. However, most of the surface boards are showing their age, except the roofed part. 

Looks like end grain rot.  Did you seal the ends?  Not that I would have.

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

You asked who MAKES good pressure treated lumber. That's different than where to buy it. 
 

Short answer- don't buy from the big box stores.

More detailed answer...

Lowe's and HD generally sell #2 grade above ground use material (except for 4x4 and 6x6 which are usually ground contact).
 

Local lumberyards often offer #1 grade which is straighter, tighter grained, and has fewer knots.  The tightness of the grain matters for rot. When a tree grows quickly it gets wider grain, and the wood between the grain is softer and rots easier. 
 

Most contractors know they get better material from local lumber yards. 
 

but there is more...

There are several levels of identification on the labels on the end of every piece of PT wood.  I just went in my back yard and picked these two labels off 2 pieces of wood. They are different:

First off, notice the Ecolife label says "ABOVE GROUND USE", and the YellaWood label says "END USE- GROUND CONTACT".  The Ecolife material is not rated to be in contact with the ground. It will rot faster. 
 

The Ecolife label came off a really pretty #1 grade 2x12. The YellaWood label came off a crummy looking #2 4x4.

Now for some info most contractors don't know...

The YellaWood label says "Micronized Copper Azole". MCA.  "Ecolife" is the trade name of the chemical DCOI.  DCOI is a water-based preservative that uses copper and other fungicides and insecticides. MCA is also a copper-based preservative, but it uses micronized copper azole, offering improved decay, insect, and mold resistance compared to traditional treatments.  Bottom line... of those 2, MCA is less susceptible to rot.

Now the fine print (more info than you wanted)...

The YellaWood label has an APWA rating classification of UC4A.  The EcoLife APWA classification is UC3B. Here is a chart of the APWA classifications:

Note that the UC3B is not rated for ground contact or structural applications. The UC4A is rated for ground contact, but only general use. 
 

If you want the "good stuff" (for heavy applications, difficult locations, salt water, etc) you're gonna have to special order it. It's not in stock at lumberyards. 
 

That was way more info than you wanted (and much more than most contractors are aware of). Simple answer... buy #1 material from a local lumber yard.  Make sure you check the label for ground contact uses.  And if you want to go overboard, learn about the AWPA classifications. 

"Runners" are stringers? Agree with Stampie, you've got many areas that will wick and hold moisture. Any exposed wood, especially end grain, needs be sealed as the deck is assembled. North side of house?  From what I can see of the structure and railings, it wouldn't pass an inspection where I live and that's just from a safety perspective. Are the posts bearing on  something below grade?  Bottom of stairs bearing on dirt? Stairs to landing stringers only bearing on 1/2 of landing itself?  Was the roof added after the fact?  If I'm honest, you've got a lot of challenges there and I assume there's some I can't see. Better lumber won't solve it, unless it's a bandaid you're after.

Pressure treated is outer surfaces, with a certain amount of absorbtion.  If you cut the wood the exposed grain is not protected.  And yes the grade and treating company means something.  

Agree with above ^^

5-7 years sounds about right if the end grain cuts were not sealed during installation.

Sadly, decks don't last forever. 

In reply to SV reX :

Master Class!

I'm not an expert on any of this.  I did recently rebuild a deck with a friend before I sold my house last year.  We had to adjust the design in many places because the original deck had similar flaws where moisture could be trapped.  Ground contact is one, but another big one was berkeleying leaves.  I gapped the tread boards more, and gapped the face(?) boards on the stairs off the tread a little more, as well as raised the balusters up off the deck.  All of those were areas on the previous deck where leaves/tree junk would fall and get trapped and hold excess moisture. 

In reply to carbidetooth :

I honestly can't speak to the engineering and code, and how things were done with order of construction. 

The thing was here when we bought the house on foreclosure in 08. Ive just done what I can to maintain and repair, replicating what was there to the best of my abilities. Which, if im honest, ain't all that great. 

But I did NOT seal cuts or end grade during repair. I didn't know that pressure treatment was surface only. 

And yes, I was calling what are apparently stringers runners. Again, didn't know. 

And yes. North side of house. How does that change things? 

Paul: that's fantastic information. I needed to know that. Thank you. 

So, I guess now we figure out how to unberkeley this football to the best of my abilities. 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

CT is correct that there are building code discrepancies in that structure, but you are not building. You are repairing. 
 

I see nothing wrong with the work you have done. Building code isn't really applicable to repairs.

It's a learning experience.  Buy the best material you can, make a few minor changes to allow less trapping of moisture (like gaps and leaves), replace the pieces you need to, and seal the cuts you make as you are installing.  You will have done a better job than 98% of contractors.
 

Hopefully you'll get 15 years out of it this time!

Good luck!

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

You may not have to meet local codes ala repair vs replace. Every jurisdiction is different. Here, If I were to modify any structural component, technically I'd have to pull a permit, although I suspect it rarely happens. Where it could potentially bite you is when you sell and buyer wants an inspection. This are usually provided by private companies and not municipality officials. Some are good, many are brain dead. The concern here comes from the lender as they don't want to get left holding an empty bag when the thing collapses. North exposure often never dries out completely because it gets little sun and resultant heat.

On a broader note, decks seem to fall outside of even marginal good practice for builders and DIYs alike, all over the country. In many ways it's more demanding of a builder to construct a deck as it sees all the elements.  A floor inside a structure is protected and supported by a foundation. I'm gun-shy because I've repaired lots of water damage.

I guess I'd advise like this: It it's your forever home, buy once, cry once, do it right. On the other hand, you bought it like that, so it's likely that someone else would. If you're going to move on in a few years SV reX probably gives good counsel. To undo what I see wrong would be expensive and it's likely money you'd never get back.

In reply to carbidetooth :

Yes those things are correct. 
 

I don't give a lot of weight to possible future concerns about a theoretical buyer who might find a home inspector who is an idiot. Yes, the current codes on deck construction are strict (for good reason), and the truth is that ANY home inspector who wants to find a problem with an existing deck can and will.  Virtually zero decks meet current code.  But home inspectors have no authority to enforce current code in existing structures. The only thing they can do is call it out as a potential safety concern, which then becomes a negotiating point in the sale. That's all.  A seller can refuse to do improvements called out in an inspection report. 
 

That deck cannot be brought up to current code without complete demolition and reconstruction down to the footings.  It could easily cost $20,000 or more.  The structure serves its useful purpose and will not cause injury or harm. There is no justification for tearing it down when it only needs some basic repairs. 
 

The IBC is upgraded every 4 years. There are almost no existing buildings that meet current code.

Yes, buy once cry once.  To me that means repair it well. Absolutely no reason to rebuild completely. 
 

OP asked how to identify good pressure treated wood to do his repairs. It's a good plan. 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

Sorry. In that case, sonotube to a few inches above grade then rebuild. You could do one at a time and with some cribbing to support the area, it shouldn't be a problem. 

lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

Sorry. In that case, sonotube to a few inches above grade then rebuild. You could do one at a time and with some cribbing to support the area, it shouldn't be a problem. 

Can you break that down into simpler terms for us slow kids? 

Everyone else: keep it going. I'm reading, rereading, looking at the deck, and reading some more. I need to get educated before going back in and wasting more time and money. 

In reply to lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm not sure OP said his support posts were bad. (He did say framing). There are code approved methods in which posts can be fully buried in the dirt, or embedded in the concrete. 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

He is suggesting one method of replacing structural support posts that support the deck to the ground. 
 

Do you need to replace posts down to the ground and/or footings?

I had not planned on replacing posts at this time. To my knowledge, none are bad. 

However, how do I check what I can't see? 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

If there is no rot or sagging, there is no need to worry.