Good quote about God

Beer Baron wrote: For the record, as someone who does not believe in the Christian version of God, I don't have any issues with the original quote. There is wisdom in it. There are strong Christians on this board who do cross the line of proselytizing at times. That line hasn't been crossed here.

Yes it has... Just not by the Christians.. (ok sorry.. I couldn't help myself.. sorry. what can I say, I am a work in progress. )

Beer Baron wrote: I have a good friend who used to do prison group ministry/counseling. The impact it had on the lives of the inmates (even lifers who weren't going to see the outside world again, no matter how much they turned themselves around), and on her was pretty incredible.

My wife is the Programs Director at our very busy county jail.. She runs some programs that do the same... but those Chaplains... There is no doubt in my mind they are doing the Lords work.. Those people are beyond incredible...

Oh... (edit)

And your analogy about the kids questioning the parents.. I didn't mean to say it was flawed in the sense that I feel is inaccurate with respect to how people often act towards God, but only that my mind jumped right to the idea of a bratty teenager acting foolish simply for the sake of ticking off his parents... I wanted to make it clear I didn't think the type of rebellion I was picturing was the kind of thing I thought Jefferson was talking about... When I see people use quotes like that in this format they are more often than not using it to push an agenda which is NOT in keeping with what I feel is the intent of the letter as it what written... If that makes sense..

friedgreencorrado wrote: Just my .02, but reading that he'd had enough of 'The God of One False Move', made this particular atheist happy to see it. *His* god is not a vengeful tyrant, but a creature who actually understands that people sometimes have difficulty getting by sometimes--and doesn't punish them for that.

I don't understand this (mis?) conception many people (atheists) have about a vengeful God.. Or whatever... This idea is in this thread several times, even after Svrex's post...

Like this.

z31maniac wrote: "Worship me. So that I can save you from what I will do if you don't." Sounds like a pretty profound way to live one's life.

Honestly I dunno where this comes from.. I am a Church hopper of the best/worst kind... I have traveled to many many different churches and this doctrine that God actually intervenes and does something to punish those who don't follow is absorb to me..

The "God is Love" style of theology just seem much more prevalent to me these days... I think this vengeful God idea is used more in these types of forum discussions as a strawman than it is practiced in churches... but hey... I have been wrong before..

mad_machine wrote:

ronholm wrote:

mad_machine wrote: I think this quote from Mahatma Gandhi sums up my feelings completely I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

You are aware this is not a Gandhi quote, and thus by extension you are practicing a human religion.

I never claimed to be an atheist. Even if I was.. Jesus has been proven to have existed, and if 1/10th of the stories attributed to him are true.. he was a wise and caring man.. For the Record.. I am a buddhist

As a Christian I have a very deep respect for the Buddhist religion. My point of view on this gets many Christians a little worked up... but let me put it simply. (which will no doubt dilute and destroy what I really hope to convey)

Christians focus on the Holy spirit as it exists 'outside' of their being,

Buddhists focus in what I believe is the same Spirit as it exists deep inside our souls..

I think as a whole both miss a little something by not copying off each others homework every once in awhile.

For whatever reason I see much more harmony b/t these practices at a higher level of thinking than I do excuses for the conflict and rejection which occurs universally... As highlighted IMO by this quote you posted.as it is more often than not bought for by secular interests for the purposes of stirring emotion Ghandi would have rejected.. Not to mention it isn't even verifiable as the words of Ghandi..

Just as I would fully expect for you to correct me, keep your Ghandi quotes straight, and all is well with me my friend.

http://www.sacred-living.org/gandhi-what-jesus-means-to-me

I believe that it is impossible to estimate the merits of the various religions of the world, and, moreover, I believe that it is unnecessary and harmful even to attempt it. But each one of them, in my judgment, embodies a common motivating force: the desire to uplift man’s life and give it purpose.

thank you. I too have nothing but respect for the Christian church and it's teachings.. if taken at it's purest level, it is a wonderful religion. It is when things are taken to an extreme that things get out of hand.

curtis73 wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: For the record, as someone who does not believe in the Christian version of God, I don't have any issues with the original quote. There is wisdom in it. There are strong Christians on this board who do cross the line of proselytizing at times. That line hasn't been crossed here.

Agreed. I also don't believe in the Bible's version of God, but nothing here has been offensive, including the OP's OP.

Oh.. as if anyone reading this can't tell.... I LOVE these types of discussions, and really enjoy them even more when people thoughtfully and carefully challenge what it is they think I believe. Only bettered as they come to know me, directly challenge what they know I personally believe. I welcome this, often seeking it out (bordering on trolling sometimes) because I really think it helps me grow. Through the years am certain powerful challenges of my faith have caused me to grow...

A letter written by an atheist help a guy like C.T. Studd to find purpose beyond what he was demanding for himself.. I won't pass on any opportunity for inspiration.

http://lumel.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/the-letter-that-inspired-c-t-studd-to-forsake-professional-sports-and-live-wholly-for-the-kingdom-of-god/

Even when they get a little nasty I think souls who care enough to actually invest themselves in the conversation can walk away with something positive at the end of the day.

And should I get out of line... Please correct me..

ronholm wrote: As a Christian I have a very deep respect for the Buddhist religion. My point of view on this gets many Christians a little worked up... but let me put it simply. (which will no doubt dilute and destroy what I really hope to convey) Christians focus on the Holy spirit as it exists 'outside' of their being, Buddhists focus in what I believe is the same Spirit as it exists deep inside our souls.. I think as a whole both miss a little something by not copying off each others homework every once in awhile. For whatever reason I see much more harmony b/t these practices at a higher level of thinking than I do excuses for the conflict and rejection which occurs universally.

You might enjoy the book "Living Budha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh (an exiled Vietnamese Buddhist monk who was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Dr. Martin Luther King). He explores this idea a lot. Talks about how he considers Jesus of Nazareth to be a Boddhisatva and what it means to him to take the Sacraments during a Christian mass. As someone who was raised Christian and realized it wasn't the path for them, this book written by a Buddhist did more to restore my faith in Christianity than anything else.

Well, I tried...

For those who have credited me with being a "good and decent guy", I appreciate the sentiment, but regretfully must reject the monicker. I'm really not. I'm a guy who chooses to love, and therefore sees awe and wonder in a lot of people who are unloved and unloveable. But anything good in me didn't come from me. That I know. I make no claim to right-ness, only forgiveness.

I realize some of you won't get it. That's ok. I still think you are cool.

Thanks for indulging me.

You're still a good guy.

SVreX wrote: For those who have credited me with being a "good and decent guy", I appreciate the sentiment, but regretfully must reject the monicker. I'm really not. I'm a guy who chooses to love, and therefore sees awe and wonder in a lot of people who are unloved and unloveable. But anything good in me didn't come from me. That I know. I make no claim to right-ness, only forgiveness. I realize some of you won't get it. That's ok. I still think you are cool.

It sounds like a certain level of guilt there. That is one thing I dislike that seems to pervade a lot of Christianity: that you are inherently bad person. It does not make sense that anything good in you didn't come from you, but that everything bad did. If God made you and gave you everything you have, then all things "good" and "bad" seem to both derive from God.

You choose to love. That is something you have power, decision, and control over. That decision came from you, not God. Even if you believe that the love comes originally from God, and you're only a conduit for it, you made that decision to be that conduit. That is a right-ness that is your own.

If you help a stranded motorist on the side of the road, you are making the decision to do something right. Even if you believe that God gave you the skill, health, and capacity to do so, you still had to make the conscious decision to use it.

It seems that if you believe in a creator God, it gave you certain capability when you were born. You can choose to use those in a productive right way or a destructive improper way. In either case, that production or destruction originated from God by creating you. The choice of "right-ness" or not is made only by you, not God.

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

JoeyM wrote: You're still a good guy.

Plus juan.

In reply to N Sperlo:

That's a good quote. I like the tongue!

In reply to Beer Baron:

I greatly appreciate your comments. I honestly don't think I can offer a good response, but I don't feel it should go unanswered. I should probably leave it alone, since I've already admitted some people won't get it.

Maybe I'm not that smart. I'll try to be brief.

Beer Baron wrote: It sounds like a certain level of guilt there. That is one thing I dislike that seems to pervade a lot of Christianity: that you are inherently bad person.

Truthfully, you've probably nailed it right there better than most anyone I've ever heard. That's the crux of the problem. We really WANT to be good, and be considered good. Everything we are taught from the day we are born aligns with Maslow's studies, or Thomas Harris' book "I'm OK, You're OK". We are steeped in Humanism. When we hear phrases like "original sin" or "born into sin", we really want to reject them.

And yet, we all know we have fallen short. I'm pretty sure no one would say they are perfect. Even a newborn's first acts are selfish and self-serving (crying for food, discomfort, etc).

There has been no greater difficulty for me in my life than coming to terms with this. I understand.

In a culture molded and defined by Harris' book, I find the truth to be more like, "I'm NOT OK, you're NOT OK, but that's OK if we walk in His forgiveness".

So, perhaps we disagree. Or perhaps not.

Beer Baron wrote: You *choose* to love.

I "choose" to exhibit the love shown for me. Sometimes.

Most of the rest of your post was about choices. You're right. I can choose to walk with God, or choose to turn away. I do it daily.

Beer Baron wrote: The choice of "right-ness" or not is made only by you, not God.

My choices are in a vacuum without someone defining what is right and what is not. I can pursue what is right in my eyes, which may cause you harm unless there is an outside influence (laws, God, game rules, umpire, Democratic vote, etc) who determines what IS right or wrong. Cannibalism is not wrong to cannibals.

Not trying to preach. Just trying to respond to your well thought out statement.

Thanks.

SVreX wrote: In reply to N Sperlo: That's a good quote. I like the tongue!

Relative to a wide range of religion. It's hard to find religious quotes relative to a witch. Also, Einstein in my idol.

In reply to Datsun1500:

Mine was a paragraph on why I was wrong. YMMV.

SVreX wrote: But anything good in me didn't come from me.

I think this is a point on which many people here would disagree with you. If you believe the good does not belong to you then why would you accept that the bad does? If there is no acceptance that these things originate with you then you cannot say you are good or bad because the actions that cause good or bad things to happen are the will of something else acting through you - not you. This is not a defense I would try in court unless you like Lithium and jackets with really long sleeves :)

If you accept credit for the bad things you think and do then you have to credit yourself with the good as well.

Datsun1500 wrote: From page 1

Want to bet all of the non religious guys post a simple few sentences saying why they believe what they do and all of the religious guys post paragraphs on why we are wrong?

I pointed out a thread where we already did that. Saves time.....

Datsun1500 wrote: Want to bet all of the non religious guys post a simple few sentences saying why they believe what they do and all of the religious guys post paragraphs on why we are wrong?

I thought this was supposed to be a thread where we post "Good quote on god". Aside from the good bit being a bit subjective depending on your beliefs... I posted some terse but "good" quotes. I didn't think we were supposed to post our own personal manifestos or quote ourselves.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If you accept credit for the bad things you think and do then you have to credit yourself with the good as well.

It is a belief of mine that God doesn't interfere with our daily life. Then again I believe we are all God, so I guess at the same time, God controls every single aspect of our life.

In reply to Datsun1500:

While I may agree on the "manifesto" comment, I see plenty of people posting not-so good quotes on God.

I believe that is a blatant violation of the rules as well.

In reply to SVreX:

I would just enjoy that you have a reflex which causes you to give pause when you think you are screwing up, and I wouldn't look at it as a matter of punishment... It is a blessing.. Some people are not gifted like that.

In reply to Beer Baron:

Thanks for the link to that book... I think I had thumbed through that years ago, but never really took it in... It is on the way to the house now.

Datsun 1500...

That comment in your last post... Do you think that happened/is currently happening in this thread?

Too many people mistake talking "at" for talking "with"

Similar to the difference between the unconscious act of hearing - something you do without effort, and the intentional act of listening, which is a conscious decision - an act that requires effort

Thoughts occur at random, thinking is an activity

often guilty as charged.

ronholm wrote:

z31maniac wrote: "Worship me. So that I can save you from what I will do if you don't." Sounds like a pretty profound way to live one's life.

Honestly I dunno where this comes from.. I am a Church hopper of the best/worst kind... I have traveled to many many different churches and this doctrine that God actually intervenes and does something to punish those who don't follow is absorb to me.. The "God is Love" style of theology just seem much more prevalent to me these days... I think this vengeful God idea is used more in these types of forum discussions as a strawman than it is practiced in churches... but hey... I have been wrong before..

Because if you don't worship him/love him, where does he send you?

Sounds pretty loving.

But I'm not adhering to the original intent of the thread, so I'll leave.

GPS summed up my thoughts well with this: "If you believe the good does not belong to you then why would you accept that the bad does?"

SVreX wrote: And yet, we all know we have fallen short. I'm pretty sure no one would say they are perfect. Even a newborn's first acts are selfish and self-serving (crying for food, discomfort, etc).

There is a big difference between being perfect/imperfect and being good/bad. Look at the best person in any field, even they will make mistakes at times or find ways in which they can improve.

My friend who did the prison ministry discussed how "sin" originally meant "to miss the mark". Yes, we all miss the mark at times. We can all do better. That doesn't make us bad people, just leaves room for improvement.

There is also a big difference between being selfish and being bad or cruel. Before you can care for others, you must first care for yourself. If you do not care for yourself, you become a burden to others. Selfishness can go too far, but is not inherently bad. It is something that must be done in moderation.

My choices are in a vacuum without someone defining what is right and what is not. I can pursue what is right in my eyes, which may cause you harm unless there is an outside influence (laws, God, game rules, umpire, Democratic vote, etc) who determines what IS right or wrong. Cannibalism is not wrong to cannibals.

That is an interesting one. I disagree. This is a place where many non-believers take umbrage. It implies that if you do not believe in the same God/holy book, and follow those rules, it is impossible to do good. Or maybe you're just arguing that "good" can only be defined in relation to some outside source. In which case, that outside source doesn't need to be God. It can be the rules agreed upon by society.

But, no. You can determine good on your own. You can determine on your own when a path of action crosses that line to where it harms another. There are plenty of opportunities where individuals stand up and say the rules that society has laid down are wrong (e.g. slavery and civil rights), or even where we can say that rules in the bible are wrong (e.g. much of the corporal punishment dictated in Leviticus).

You can set values completely independent of a religious belief, like my "Love and care for all you can. Leave your world a better place than you found it." I did not derive that primarily from Christianity or the belief in a Christian/Biblical God. I suspect it is a value that someone who derives their beliefs from those sources would find to be a "good" one and leads me to right action more often than not. Either I am capable of right action without God, or I am inherently able to walk with the divine without religion.

Edit: Our choices are not in a vacuum. Our choices have effects and impacts on the world around us. We are able to see whether our choices bring more joy or suffering to the world, and use that to guide future decisions.