Good thing for those tight gun laws

oldtin wrote: I thought it was already pretty much illegal to shoot people, not sure what making it more illegal would do.

It would stop 100% of all gun related crime. Obviously. Duh.

Maybe we could come up with a way to eliminate the hoodrat mentality where people think that acting hard and carrying on in their saggy pants makes them "tough".

How about a series of PSAs where women (the true holders of power) discuss not berking guys who don't have jobs and wear saggy pants.

When the guys learn to act correctly and in a socially acceptable manner they will start to get laid again.

Slightly off topic, but why did the 4th of July Holiday result in so much violence? Was it due to drinking? People had a day off an nothing better to do? Is it a reminder of our rights as free Americans so people grab their gun? Seems like a day to fire up the grill and relax. What gives?

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to aircooled: Yeah, as much as I agree with OP, closing the first post with "Zips on flame suit..." is kinda instigational.

I thought I would draw some fire away from the Harley thread.

Actually the discussion is civilized like I expected, other than the gay slur by yamaha. Nobody has even mentioned Hitler yet.

In reply to Pinchvalve:

I was wondering the same thing. Since they put so many cops on the street it must be typical for violence to spike.

pinchvalve wrote: Slightly off topic, but why did the 4th of July Holiday result in so much violence? Was it due to drinking? People had a day off an nothing better to do? Is it a reminder of our rights as free Americans so people grab their gun? Seems like a day to fire up the grill and relax. What gives?

Drinking, drug use, and a shining example of how most criminals aren't complete idiots, they know the sound of exploding fireworks could lessen the chances of the police being called for gunshots. You could have a small scale war during a fireworks show.

But what do I know, I only used to watch over 210 violent shiny happy people from the E36 M3hole of Gary.

I also used to live in Chicago. Guns are not the problem, they are the tool. There are real and very serious issues there. Tighter gun laws will not stop it. Sooner or later the US is going to have to step up and address the issues, not try to band aid over them with additional meaningless laws to appease the voting base.

unk577 wrote: My idea to fix this is stiffer penalties for violent crimes, along with a broader more frequent use of the death penalty, and if a violent offender is offered a plea deal and commits another violent crime then charge the DA/SA as an accessory.

Sounds like a great way to end up with an even bigger prison/industrial complex, more innocent people executed, and a further militarization of our police force. Might as well just move to China now instead of trying to duplicate it here.

http://www.denverpost.com/News/ci_26100032/Family-and-friends-seek-answers-after

At least you guys don't have to deal with crap like every time the police shot someone where you live. For reference kid stole a car and tried to run over a female officer and it ended badly for him. This is just the latest it happens in Denver all the time. Some trash will do something dumb like shoot a cop in the middle of a "cultural" arts festival get killed and we will have to see stupid memorials and freaking family on the news talking about how he didn't mean to shoot, run over, kill insert dumb ass thing dead guy did and how the "mean cops killed there angel". Worse when they are an illegal and have 8 dui's over 4 years and are never deported then on the 9th kill some poor kid and the family does it. This town is going to hell.

In reply to xd:

HEEEE WUZ A GUUUUUD KEEEIIIIDD! HE WUZ GOIN TO CHURCH AN EVERYTHIN! HE DIN MEAN TO ROB THAT STORE AN SHOOT AT THE COPS!

I hate that E36 M3.

IIRC most of the gun violence in Chicago is gang related. Part of the problem stems from when the Feds came down on the Latin Kings a few years ago and effectively "cut the snake's head off" by throwing the leadership in jail. Good thing right?

Well, in the aftermath, you have all these little fiefdoms of gangbangers fighting for turf, without a central organization to reign them in. Can't blame the Feds for trying to take the Kings down--- but the aftermath has been nasty.

Gun laws or lack thereof have very little to do with what's happening in Chicago. It's just a political football that gets thrown around so folks can say "see---- I told you so" These punks have no respect for laws, life, or themselves.

The real problem as I see it--- as nothing to do with guns. It has to do with the breakdown of the family. These kids are being raised on the street, and they turn into monsters. Usually no Dad in the picture, and even if Mom is trying to do the right thing---- it's an uphill battle.

It's a bad situation, and no one seems to be addressing the root of the problem.

Joe Gearin wrote: IIRC most of the gun violence in Chicago is gang related. Part of the problem stems from when the Feds came down on the Latin Kings a few years ago and effectively "cut the snake's head off" by throwing the leadership in jail. Good thing right? Well, in the aftermath, you have all these little fiefdoms of gangbangers fighting for turf, without a central organization to reign them in. Can't blame the Feds for trying to take the Kings down--- but the aftermath has been nasty. Gun laws or lack thereof have very little to do with what's happening in Chicago. It's just a political football that gets thrown around so folks can say "see---- I told you so" These punks have no respect for laws, life, or themselves. The real problem as I see it--- as nothing to do with guns. It has to do with the breakdown of the family. These kids are being raised on the street, and they turn into monsters. Usually no Dad in the picture, and even if Mom is trying to do the right thing---- it's an uphill battle. It's a bad situation, and no one seems to be addressing the root of the problem.

Came in here to say the same thing. I'd wager that probably 95% or more of the violence from that story was gang related.

In reply to Grizz:

We just got a dose of that in Indianapolis after a dickweed decided to get into a shootout with police. Severely wounded one and killed another. All because his daddy died after being arrested for possession of drugs.

The most idiotic part was the family saying it was the officer who died's fault for getting out of his car.

E36 M3 like that makes me think that genocide might not be a bad idea.

And yes, most violence period is gang violence, but thats old news. So only school shootings make the news now.

In reply to Grizz:

Yup, legal pot and strict gun laws. Thank god house closes at the end of the month and we are getting the hell out of this town. Open carry in the state except the one place its needed "city and county of Denver". This place is a hole.

In reply to xd:

I guess I'm not seeing the "hole" aspect of Denver that you're describing, or I'm not sure where you plan on going that it's less like whatever you're not liking about Denver.

I personally hated living in Littleton and working in Centennial (the work situation was the coworkers and company, not that part of the metro per se) so grain of salt. Just curious what your plan is or what you're irritated with there now.

bastomatic wrote: The report I heard said that the actual murder rate this year is the lowest since 1965. But sure, cherry pick one weekend to prove a broad point.

Violent crime in general is down nationwide over the last 10 years, but of course, you'll never hear about that unless you look for it.

Joe Gearin wrote: The real problem as I see it--- as nothing to do with guns. It has to do with the breakdown of the family. It's a bad situation, and no one seems to be addressing the root of the problem.

...and if they ARE doing something about it, it's negative: like arbitrarily defining that 10%-15% of the potential families out there are not "real" families.

In reply to pres589:

I live in city park. Hearing gun fire constantly is annoying as hell. This is the new posh area so 500 hipsters mixed with wanna be gang bangers and the middle class who have lived here for generations. People bitching about dumb E36 M3 like putting in a bike lane when there are freaking shots fired about 2 times a week. Some guy knocking on my door about talking to my neighbor about moving the car out of his driveway because he is scared to go over because they have a big dog. Its just all the dumb E36 M3 that these people care about is not the real problem. We got 25 offers on our house with in 12 hours on the market and sold it for 45k above asking only had 1 showing. We are moving to Elizabeth. My problem is that the people around here pretend that nothing is happening its gonna end badly. Maybe this is how big cities work. this is the first I have lived in one. Don't even get me started on Colorado blvd or Colefax. It must just raise my blood pressure to be in this city.

In reply to xd:

Would you like to know what will happen eventually to all these cities? Just take a look at the implosion of Gary, IN. Theres a really good "Abandoned places" documentary about Gary(listed as Gray) on Netflix right now. It happened to Gary, then Detroit......it'll happen eventually to every city.

dculberson wrote:

unk577 wrote: My idea to fix this is stiffer penalties for violent crimes, along with a broader more frequent use of the death penalty, and if a violent offender is offered a plea deal and commits another violent crime then charge the DA/SA as an accessory.

Sounds like a great way to end up with an even bigger prison/industrial complex, more innocent people executed, and a further militarization of our police force. Might as well just move to China now instead of trying to duplicate it here.

since something in the nieghborhood of 65% of gun deaths are repeat offenders. Are you saying that you would rather they stay on the street to commit more crimes?

yamaha wrote: In reply to xd: Would you like to know what will happen eventually to all these cities? Just take a look at the implosion of Gary, IN. Theres a really good "Abandoned places" documentary about Gary(listed as Gray) on Netflix right now. It happened to Gary, then Detroit......it'll happen eventually to every city.

I've gotta disagree with this, and have a bit of a brighter outlook. Gary and Detroit were dependent on heavy industry. When these industries failed, or shrank-- these cities collapsed. This is why so many former industrial cities / states are having such a hard time. (see cities in Ohio)

I don't see this happening to places like Denver, as their economy isn't solely tied to industry---- it's more high-tech, oil and gas, and tourism.

Although if you think crime in Denver is bad, you really don't want to live in Chicago, NY, L.A, Detroit, Miami, D.C., Baltimore, St. Louis, or any other large city. Denver is pretty darn safe as far as large cities go. Although it does have it's bad spots. ( The intersection of Colfax and Colorado Blvd. being one) My ex used to work at the Bluebird Theater--- so I've spent lots of time on Colfax. It's not the nicest area--- but I did get to see a bunch of great music!

dculberson wrote:

unk577 wrote: My idea to fix this is stiffer penalties for violent crimes, along with a broader more frequent use of the death penalty, and if a violent offender is offered a plea deal and commits another violent crime then charge the DA/SA as an accessory.

Sounds like a great way to end up with an even bigger prison/industrial complex, more innocent people executed, and a further militarization of our police force. Might as well just move to China now instead of trying to duplicate it here.

How so?

A large percentage of people in prison are in for non violent crimes related to drugs, theft etc. I'm not saying inprison more. I'm saying imprison less. If you're a violent offender, especially a repeat offender, the likelihood of being rehabilitated is slim to none. The solution is the death penalty, and not dying of old age on death row while you wait for appeal after appeal after appeal. Nor did I imply the denial of due process.

There should be no plea deals for violent offenders, it's only will embolden them the next time to know they won't be held accountable. DA's and SA's get paid to do a job, they need to do it to choose another career field.

There was no implication of further militarizing our police. And just because some wear BDU's or military style uniforms, or carry a gun that might look like a military weapon doesn't mean they are militarized. Just because someone wears scrubs in a hospital doesn't mean they are a doctor.

Your concerns about the police are misdirected. You should be worried about your federal government that continues to attack your rights. Your first line of defense between you and the federal government is your local Sheriff.

After a violent offender hurts you or your family let me know if you're still sympathetic of them. Especially is they were able to plea out of prison time on a previous offense

unk577 wrote: After a violent offender hurts you or your family let me know if you're still sympathetic of them. Especially is they were able to plea out of prison time on a previous offense

Ah, yes, the laziest of arguments. I've lost loved ones to violence, that doesn't mean I trust the government to get 100% of convictions right to the point of expanding the death penalty.

dculberson wrote:

unk577 wrote: After a violent offender hurts you or your family let me know if you're still sympathetic of them. Especially is they were able to plea out of prison time on a previous offense

Ah, yes, the laziest of arguments. I've lost loved ones to violence, that doesn't mean I trust the government to get 100% of convictions right to the point of expanding the death penalty.

This is the strawman of all strawman arguments. We're talking about REPEAT OFFENDERS. Not talking about first time offenders. WE're also not saying that we think they should be executed the following day after sentencing. We're talking about the REPEAT VIOLENT OFFENDERS that account for almost 65% of gun related homicides. That would reduce those from ~9000 gun deaths last year to ~3200.

But hey, I'm sure we're fine just letting those guys back out on the street so they can do it again. I mean, it works now, right?

In reply to Joe Gearin:

Tech will eventually collapse, as will oil/gas, and tourism.

You're thinking short term, not long term. They'll all fail eventually. Its like all the little serfdoms of the middle ages, lots of people in the towns, relying upon those not in the towns to sustain their existance. Eventually, the gravy train will always stop.