Grassroots bicycling

slefain wrote: Oh, and the frame is custom to him, pretty much useless for anyone who doesn't have his exact same measurements.

Err, not quite.
It'd be less optimal for someone else, but useless?
Hardly.
There's a lot of leeway when you factor in easy adjustment points: seat height, seat angle, setback posts, seat placement on said post, length and rise of stems, bar sweep/width/drop, crank length...

Sorry, may have gotten caught up in discussing something I'm vaguely qualified to discuss.

Skiing and snowboarding is pretty bad when you consider the amount of hours you use that equipment. If you live near a resort, buying the equipment may be worthwhile, but your still spend quite a bit on lift tickets.

At least bicycling is mostly free once you've made the initial purchase. No gas, no insurance, no registration.

I ride a bike for exersize, not competition. The harder it is to pedal, the better the workout.

I've got two bikes right now that I think can make one decent rider. They were abandoned in the highway ditch about 5 miles out of the city. I liked my old CCM, but I forgot to unstrap it from the nose of the race trailer one weekend, and it went walkabout with one of the locals.

EastCoastMojo wrote: Or you can spend $500 on a vacuum cleaner.

that sucks!

EastCoastMojo wrote: Hell, you can spend $400 on ONE golf club these days, and you can't even play golf with just one club! Or you can spend $500 on a vacuum cleaner.

I explained to my wife how she came out $100 ahead on the purchases but she’s still mad.

AngryCorvair wrote:

EastCoastMojo wrote: Or you can spend $500 on a vacuum cleaner.

*that* sucks!

We have a Dyson DC41 Animal (and a DC35 cordless)--that's a LOT of money tied up in sucking. Damn cats...

Anyway, I put around a grand into my MTB in college back in '93. It was a nice XT/LX mix of parts and was nice for the time. Now, $1000 nets you WAY more.

Keep in mind, the first Stumpjumper cost $750 in 1981. Also, the spec on a $300 bike now is much nicer than a $300 bike 20 years ago--as long as it's mountain.

Pretty much the only way to go sub-$1k on a new road bike is to go through bikesdirect.com. Otherwise, it's all craigslist. There's essentially no entry market for road bikes.

I have about $1500 into my main road bike (got it for free from work, but changed out everything but the seatpost and headset over the years), about $650 into my old Trek (in restomodding it), $400 in my singlespeed road bike. Got my $900 MTB free from work back in 2005 or so.

gamby wrote: Anyway, I put around a grand into my MTB in college back in '93. It was a nice XT/LX mix of parts and was nice for the time. Now, $1000 nets you WAY more.

Very true! When I got my Klein Attitude Comp in '99, it retailed for $1100 (I worked at a shop and got it on the pro deal ). It replaced a handbuilt Wicked Fat Chance with Cook Bros cranks, IRD brakes, Bullseye hubs and bottom bracket... All kinds of expensive cottage industry bits.

The Klein blew it out of the water in every way just as it came out of the box. It had been a big decade for development.

My MTB set me back a good bit more than the $1100 that the OP mentioned. Do I need a bike like that? No, not really. Do I want a bike like that? Oh yeah. About 15 years ago when I rode all the time I used to get pissed off at the old fat guys with bikes that I couldn't afford and I could outride any day of the week without trying too hard. Now I am that guy.

My cyclorcross bike was more like the $1100ish price range and it is just as fun to ride, but not super light or packed with the best components.

I LOVE the pricey stuff, but am too cheap/poor for all of it. Can't say it'd make my infrequent rides more convenient or pleasurable than on my '80 Peugeot PH8 road beater. And I picked up from CL a one owner '91 Diamondback Apex in need of nothing but a tube. Absolutely spotless right down to the owners manual save for a few light scratches from being transported in the back of an '82 RX-7 a few times. The guy offered it up free, I tossed him $50.

Damn sensibilities.

This is long, and borrowed from Surly. It fits.

• If you think your bike looks good, it does.
• If you like the way your bike rides, it’s an awesome bike.
• You don’t need to spend a million dollars to have a great bike, but if you do spend a million dollars and know what you want you’ll probably also have a great bike.
• Yes, you can tour on your bike – whatever it is.
• Yes, you can race on your bike – whatever it is.
• Yes, you can commute on your bike – whatever it is.
• 26” wheels or 29” or 650b or 700c or 24” or 20” or whatever – yes, that wheel size is rad and you’ll probably get where you’re going.
• Disc brakes, cantis, v-brakes, and road calipers all do a great job of stopping a bike when they’re working and adjusted.
• No paint job makes everyone happy.
• Yes, you can put a rack on that. Get some p-clamps if there are no mounts.
• Steel is a great material for making bike frames - so is aluminum, carbon fiber, and titanium.
• You can have your saddle at whatever angle makes you happy.
• Your handlebars can be lower than your saddle, even with your saddle, or higher than your saddle. Whichever way you like it is right.
• Being shuttled up a downhill run does not make you a weak person, nor does choosing not to fly off of a 10 foot drop.
• Bike frames made overseas can be super cool. Bike frames made in the USA can be super cool.
• Hey, tattooed and pierced long shorts wearin flat brim hat red bull drinkin white Oakley sportin rad person on your full suspension big hit bike – nice work out there.
• Hey, little round glasses pocket protector collared shirt skid lid rear view mirror sandal wearing schwalbe marathon running pletscher two-leg kickstand tourist – good job.
• Hey, shaved leg skinny as hell super duper tan line hear rate monitor checking power tap train in the basement all winter super loud lycra kit million dollar wheels racer – keep it up.
• The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

• The following short answers are good answers, but not the only ones for the question asked 29” Brooks Lugged Disc Brake Steel Campagnolo Helmet Custom Rohloff NJS Carbon 31.8 Clipless Porteur

• No bike does everything perfectly. In fact, no bike does anything until someone gets on it to ride.

• Sometimes, recumbent bikes are ok.
• Your bikeshop is not trying to screw you. They’re trying to stay open.
• Buying things off of the internet is great, except when it sucks.
• Some people know more about bikes than you do. Other people know less.
• Maybe the person you waved at while you were out riding didn’t see you wave at them.
• It sucks to be harassed by shiny happy people in cars while you’re on a bike. It also sucks to drive behind shiny happy people on bikes.
• Did you build that yourself? Awesome. Did you buy that? Cool.
• Wheelies are the best trick ever invented. That’s just a fact.
• Which is better, riding long miles, or hanging out under a bridge doing tricks? Yes.
• Yes, you can break your collar bone riding a bike like that.
• Stopping at stop signs is probably a good idea.
• Driving with your bikes on top of your car to get to a dirt trail isn’t ideal, but for most people it’s necessary.
• If your bike has couplers, or if you have a spendy bike case, or if you pay a shop to pack your bike, or if you have a folding bike, shipping a bike is still a pain in the ass for everyone involved.
• That dent in your frame is probably ok, but maybe it’s not. You should get it looked at.
• Touch up paint always looks like E36 M3. Often it looks worse than the scratch.
• A pristine bike free of dirt, scratches, and wear marks makes me sort of sad.
• A bike that’s been chained to the same tree for three years caked with rust and missing parts makes me sad too.
• Bikes purchased at Wal-mart, Target, Costco, or K-mart are generally not the best bang for your buck.
• Toe overlap is not the end of the world, unless you crash and die – then it is.
• Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
• Yes, you can buy a bike without riding it first. It would be nice to ride it first, but it’s not a deal breaker not to.
• Ownership of a truing stand does not a wheel builder make.
• 32 spokes, 48 spokes, 24 spokes, three spokes? Sure.
• Single speed bikes are rad.
• Bikes with derailleurs and cassettes are sexy.
• Belt drive internal gear bikes work great too.
• Columbus, TruTemper, Reynolds, Ishiwata, or no brand? I’d ride it.
• Tubeless tires are pretty cool.
• So are tubes.
• The moral of RAGBRAI is that families and drunken boobs can have fun on the same route, just maybe at different times of day.
• Riding by yourself kicks ass. You might also try riding with a group.
• Really fast people are frustrating, but they make you faster. When you get faster, you might frustrate someone else.
• Stopping can be as much fun as riding.
• Lots of people worked their asses off to build whatever you’re riding on. You should thank them.

i got my mongoose bmx for free in the trash with a bent sprocket, and got a new sprocket on ebay for $10 shipped.

my mountain bike was the same way. i didn't even look at the brand but it's got an aluminum frame and suspension all around. it needed the derailer bent back and a seat.

Timely that this comes up. Last weekend I picked up an early 80's (?) Peugeot road bike at the junkyard for $15. Now trying to figure out how much I want to spend on it... and my other bike... and I'm sure this is going to lead into my wanting another MTB...

Of the four bikes I own, I bought one new (a base model Cannondale MTB); it was cheap, and it still cost more than all the other ones combined. I saved an ate-up mid-1990s Giant MTB (Deore) out of the dump and rebuilt it. I built a pseudo-randonneur out of a $10 Gitane gaspipe frame and some free Campagnolo parts from a bike swap. A buddy gave me his 20-year old Bianchi, which I then freshened up.

As capable as the Cannondale is, I think I end up enjoying the cheap stuff more knowing that I built it up from nothing.

In reply to bastomatic:

That's a FANTASTIC list and I agree with all of it. :)

In reply to bastomatic:

Good stuff.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a new bike purchased at the local bike shop likely has a bunch of added value that doesn't come with a used or lightly-used bike. Yes, the used bike is cheaper, but like a buying a used car, no warranty, no service plan, no support from the dealer, and lord-even-knows what sort of gorilla "worked" on the bike in the past.

The $99 or $149 department store bikes aren't even the equivalent of a Kia or similar. They probably aren't even the equivalent of a Geely or similar. They are like a three-wheeled Zap or a golf cart or something like that. They are assembled by "technicians" with no training, barely adequate tools, and little supervision. They work OK if you only use them on occasional sunny weekends around your neighborhood, but if you plan on using it daily or putting any real miles on it, or carrying any sort of load on it, it just won't cut it. I'm not saying that somebody shouldn't buy a department store bike if it works for their purposes. I am saying that a dependable, reliable, utilitarian, and decent quality bicycle for daily use is going to cost you about $450 and up, and that spending $750 or so buys more than twice what $450 buys you in the new market. $450 buys you a base-model Kia. $750 buys you a well-equipped V6 Camry. $1100 buys you a Mustang or WRX, and $1900 buys you a Porsche/Corvette with performance options. You can spend $5000+ on a Ferrari with custom upholstery or a Pagani or similar if you want, but the sweet spot for new bike value really is the in $750-2000 range.

I can't speak for all LBS, but the shop where I work gives you a bunch of stuff with the purchase of bike; lifetime free basic adjustments, discount on parts and accessories, free installation of accessories, free fitting on the bike, with stem swap at no addtional charge, complimentary comprehensive initial service, considerable discounts on any parts swaps or upgrades at the time of purchase, and discounts on future comprehensive service, as well as stellar warranty support. Our mechanics all have a minimum of five years of industry experience, and most of them have 10-15 years experience.

Just like used cars, if you know what you are looking for and can sort the wheat from the chaff, and do your own work, and don't mind a project that needs some work, you can save a big chunk by buying used. Most people buying cars can't. If you are reading GRM, you probably can.

Most people buying bikes also can't. If you are reading GRM, you probably can, but the bulk of our customers in the bike industry aren't really DIY. Sure, it might cost more for the initial purchase, but for the non-mechanically-saavy newb the long-term costs aren't any more and may be less buying new at a shop.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but as someone with a career in the bike industry, this topic gets me riled up.

If you want a good value on a new bike, REI on closeout is the place to go. Their regular prices are about par, but when they close out a new bike, it goes down to like 50% off. I got a 29er with Sram X-9 components for less than $700 couple years back.

I've seen some really impressively spec'ed commuter bikes there too, like one with the Shimano Nexus 8 hub, and a front dynamo hub for about $500.

ae86andkp61 wrote: The $99 or $149 department store bikes aren't even the equivalent of a Kia or similar. They probably aren't even the equivalent of a Geely or similar. They are like a three-wheeled Zap or a golf cart or something like that. They are assembled by "technicians" with no training, barely adequate tools, and little supervision. They work OK if you only use them on occasional sunny weekends around your neighborhood, but if you plan on using it daily or putting any real miles on it, or carrying any sort of load on it, it just won't cut it. I'm not saying that somebody shouldn't buy a department store bike if it works for their purposes. I am saying that a dependable, reliable, utilitarian, and decent quality bicycle for daily use is going to cost you about $450 and up

I got a Mongoose mountain bike 10 years ago. Rode down the Natchez Trace Parkway, taken it on trails more then a few times, rode it through 4 years of college and it sat outside for all 4 of those years and it still works fine minus needing a new brake cable.

Edit: Don't get me wrong I am not staying that a more pricey bike wouldn't do the job better but I just don't agree that a cheap bike can't manage.

I wonder if people see the irony in claiming that expensive bikes are a waste of money, but think that it is TOTALLY reasonable to buy a set of R-compound or high performance tires every every year. Just saying.

I LOVE my Cannondale prophet, with it's fantastic brakes, perfect shifts and decent suspension, even if I am the fat slow guy on the trail. YMMV.

Bikes are great. Cheap ones, expensive ones... They're all fun.

I challenge anyone to hop on a bike and tell me truthfully that they don't have fun in some way, shape, or form while on it.

I don't care if I'm suffering through a century, scared poopless on a new mtb run, or towing my son up a hill in the burley- It's all fun in some sado-masochistic way.

In reply to golfduke:

That's the truth.

I've had a hard time transitioning to not riding so much - I went from no kids, in a place with good roads, and many nearby trails - to having a newborn, with no decent bike lanes nearby and the closest trail is a 30+ minute drive away.

Can't wait til this spring though, I have to get a trailer for my daughter so we can ride together. What I really want is this, but $3000 is a lot of money.

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: I wonder if people see the irony in claiming that expensive bikes are a waste of money, but think that it is TOTALLY reasonable to buy a set of R-compound or high performance tires every every year. Just saying.

Oh I did... from everything I've read, even Lemons racing is more expensive than how much I spent racing DH.
For anyone posting on a motorsports site to criticize how much some folks spend on bicycles is well... asinine..

I'm spoiled. I can commute to my office without touching pavement until I get into the parking lot. 12 miles of singletrack, fireroads, and other stuff in between.

In reply to golfduke:

That's awesome. I'm jealous.

Yeah, the only crappy part is the whole snow and frigid weather thing right now. I'm a pansy, so I stop riding in the winter.