Have we talked about film cameras lately?

VegasNick said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

So much that I own two of them. Don't get me wrong, they have idiosyncrasies. They are temperamental, but for a economic MF camera, they can't be beat! If you can find one that has been to ARAX then go that route. If not, a straight Kiev is fine. If going TLR, The Yashicamat is the way to go, althought getting pricier now because it's a hipster thing. LOL

I was thinking about buying from Hartblei for the Kievs.

For TLR, I was thinking Yashicamat, Ricohflex or spending a bit more and getting one of the cheaper Rolleiflexs like 3.5.

Anybody shooting with a Seagull TLR?  I've had mine for decades.  Run a few rolls of film through it.  It's okay I guess. 

Speaking of film cameras, yesterday we had my kids birthday party and I grabbed my OM1, four lens and my Rollei 35 TE. I put the 50mm f1.8 on and put a UV filter on. I couldn't get to focus properly so I just shot with my other lens. Got home looked at the lens, turns out that UV filter was a close up +2 filter...

In reply to 93EXCivic :

TLRs are great. I've had more than a half a dozen of them, and I still have three: an Old Standard Rolleiflex, an early Mamiyaflex Automat A (with Olympus lenses), and a Zeiss Ikoflex Ic. All of these were broken in some way when I got them, which raises the important point that TLRs vary from quite simple to hugely complex, and they're all pretty old at this point. Mine range from the early 30s to the middle 50s. Anything with automatic film spacing is going to be questionable unless you can confirm that it's functioning properly. I wish I took photos of the mechanisms on the Mamiyaflex and the Ikoflex to show the jumble of gears and levers under the side plates. Expect that the mirror and the ground glass screen will be dirty, and many TLRs benefit from installing a brighter screen.

I started with a very basic American TLR, the Ciroflex, which was quite reliable because everything except for the shutter was super simple. I'd suggest buying something cheap and simple for starters, just to see if you like shooting that way, before investing in a better, more complex camera. I love it, but staring down at a reversed image is not for everyone.

Take a look at this page for more information than you could ever want: http://www.tlr-cameras.com/TLRs.htm

In reply to 02Pilot :

Makes sense. I was leaning Ricohflex because they seem to be around $100 and I have heard they take very good pictures.

My other thought was buy a Kiev 88CM or 60 and that comes with the waist level finder as well as the prism. I can see if I like shooting like that and then look into a TLR.

Honestly it will be a bit off. I have a couple OM lens (50mm macro, 100mm f2.8) I want to add first, a Helios 44-2 and M42 to k mount adaptor and a Olympus Pen F half frame as well build up another bicycle.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I've been intrigued by the Pen F, but never enough to invest in the system, especially after lens prices went nuts after M4/3 adapters came out. No idea where they are now, as I've mostly stopped buying camera equipment (I've got everything I need and quite a bit that I don't). I do have a Pen D3 that takes remarkably good photos for a half-frame in spite of the badly pitted front element. I should probably use it more often, given where film prices are.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Yeah they aren't overly cheap. I see them around $200 with a lens. But everything I have heard about them is good. The lens are supposed to be really nice and the build quality great. I am wanting to do a project over time with half frame photos so that is why I want to buy one (also for just random snapshots, it will be half the price to shot).

In reply to 93EXCivic :

You're probably already aware of this, but I've found that half-frames do particularly well with fine-grained films. I never shoot TMax except in half-frames (Ilford Delta would work here too), and I use Ektar or Portra for color (I normally shoot Ektar in everything for the limited color I do use). This is a half-frame on Ektar from my Yashica Samurai-Z (which is a very strange camera):

In reply to 02Pilot :

I need to try T-Max. Is the 400 pretty fine grain?

I prefer black and white but I do occasionally grab color. Although good luck finding any right now...

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Definitely more fire-grained that TriX or HP5, though the developer you choose will have an impact as well.

In reply to 02Pilot :

I haven't tried TriX yet either. I have tried HP5, Svema 200, Fomapan 100 & 400, Rollei 80S, Arista EDU Ultra 200, Lomo Potsdam Kino 100 and Berlin Kino 400. About to try Rollei 400S and Japan Camera Hunter 400. 

I like HP5 in my Olympus and Rollei 35 but no so much in my rangefinder. I absolutely loved the results of Rollei 80S and Svema 200 both shot in my Olympus. Also liked the Arista EDU Ultra. The Lomo black and white, meh. I need to find out what developer my lab uses. I want to try home developing once the garage is done.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I haven't used most of the ones you mention; some are relabels, which means there may be duplicates (the Lomo stuff is notorious for this). TriX is the standard for fast B&W - definitely try it, just as a reference point if nothing else. It is somewhat similar to HP5, but generally a little more contrasty.

In reply to 02Pilot :

I am betting the Lomo stuff is Fomapan. I would not be surprised it Lomo Potsdam equals Fomapan 100 and Berlin eqauls Foma 400. I think Rollei and JCH is made by Agfa but my understanding is both are unique stocks. The Svema film is made in Ukraine. I really like it but it is a thin film. Freestyle has it for $6.99 a roll. I have shot the 200 and I have 100 and 64 in the fridge. I think Aristo is made by Ilford.

My local shop stocks HP5, Delta 100, Ortho Pan, sometimes Aristo Edu and sometimes Kodak color (those rare times it isn't sold out) but I have never seen Kodak black and white. I have shot HP5 the most. 

I'll try to grab TriX and TMax next time I make an order. I think since it is more expensive then Ilford or the others I haven't bought it.

Arista Edu 400 is Lomopan 400 Action.  Same with the 100 == Lomo 100.  I think the 200 is the same situation but possibly not.

Sometimes the developer, and how it was handled, that can really change the look of the developed negative.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Arista Edu 400 is Lomopan 400 Action.  Same with the 100 == Lomo 100.  I think the 200 is the same situation but possibly not.

Sometimes the developer, and how it was handled, that can really change the look of the developed negative.

 

Interesting. I haven't really cared for the Fomapan I had tried (100 and 400) but liked the Arista Edu 200. I could have sworn I had read it was a Ilford product but I maybe getting it confused with Kentmore.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Arista Edu 400 is Lomopan 400 Action.  Same with the 100 == Lomo 100.  I think the 200 is the same situation but possibly not.

Sometimes the developer, and how it was handled, that can really change the look of the developed negative.

 

Arista was Foma for quite a while, IIRC. Arista is just a Freestyle Photo house brand; they're buying their stock from someone else. I have no experience with it because I'm on the other side of the country and they charge for shipping, so it just doesn't make sense for me to buy from them when I have suppliers like FPP, B&H, and Adorama close by.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I have one, but haven't shot any with it just yet. 

In reply to 93EXCivic :

This is Tri-X shot in my Kiev88. Yellow filter. 

Got a Contax TVS from ebay that broke the week I got it, the 10 pics I took did look great though lol.

Can anyone point in a direction in learning how to use flash with film? And what I should be looking for in a flash?

I would get a flash that is compatible with modern cameras/triggers and doesn't have the crazy voltage spikes that kill modern cameras like what come from older flashes.  I don't know the specifics beyond "don't use an old flash on a modern camera or you'll kill it", sorry.  

Honestly I don't think it's that different using a flash with film vs. digital except you can't chimp the results instantly to know if you got it right or not.  But I'm only starting to dip my toes into using flashes and I'm sure other folks here can provide actual guidance.  

As for Arista/Foma, I understand not always liking the look of Foma 400, but sometimes I can get it to sing well enough.  I use Freestyle Photography as their pricing is decent, their customer service has been good over the phone, and when I order enough stuff the cost of shipping isn't a big deal to me.  I actually just ordered 10 rolls of Foma 400 from them.  Foma 400 seems like a film where the developer really matters as to what you get out of it and it's not as well supported as, say, Tri-X as to what developers to recommend.  I want to try it with some paper developer I picked up a while back but haven't gotten around to and I'm sure it's going to be a real trial and error process to get anything worthwhile out of that way.  

This is Foma 400, probably a 1.5 second exposure, developed in Clayton F76+ and developed with about a two stop push;

p.s. I'm having serious "how is he so good at nailing exposure??" envy inre: VegasNick's pictures that he's sharing.  

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

I am not too worried about using it with a modern camera tbh. I have an Olympus m4/3 I haven't touched since I started shooting film tbh. I haven't used flash beyond cellphone and crappy disposables so I know literally nothing about flash. 

I noticed KEH is having a sale and I have found the Ricoh 55mm f2.2 I have is kind of crap. But the K mount 50mm lens I am looking at put me below the total cost for free shipping. Looking to made add a flash unit.

Which k-mount 50 are you looking at?  About the flash, I wouldn't want to buy a flash that only works on film cameras, when there are so many flashes out there that are compatible.  Why limit yourself to older units unless it's something really special?

I'm working on getting a collection of flashes and wireless triggers for reasons and I'm really glad I should be able to swap from my digital cameras to my film cameras without having to worry about things.  Being able to take portraits with black and white film then being able to jump back to a digital body for color or the different looks of each turns me on.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Which k-mount 50 are you looking at?  About the flash, I wouldn't want to buy a flash that only works on film cameras, when there are so many flashes out there that are compatible.  Why limit yourself to older units unless it's something really special?

I'm working on getting a collection of flashes and wireless triggers for reasons and I'm really glad I should be able to swap from my digital cameras to my film cameras without having to worry about things.  Being able to take portraits with black and white film then being able to jump back to a digital body for color or the different looks of each turns me on.

Either the Pentax 50mm f2 or f1.7. I got a cheap KR5 Super that is going to be my mountain biking camera so I am looking for a cheap 50mm to go with my 35mm f3.5.

That is fair enough. I do like the look of the vintage ones. How do you pick on that works with digitals? Do you just use manual flash with the film cameras? I had been thinking about an Olympus T32 since it should work well as TTL with the OM1n. 

Avoid the Pentax 50mm f2's due to relative image quality.  Avoid the Pentax 50 f1.7 if it's from the A series due to plastic in the build impacting longevity of the aperture ring (I actually own one of these, and yes, it came to me broken).  I have a Pentax M-series 50 f1.7 which I love.  Excellent lens.  Like it more than my M-series 50 f1.4 (though in theory the 1.4 should be 'the better lens').  Pentax 50 f2's and f1.7's are the same physical size so there's no advantage to the f2's save for cost.

My plan with flashes is to use manual flash settings and just check the output until I get settings nailed.  Recheck once in a while but it's not like dynamic lighting changes which would require changes to flashes really happen that fast.  So it's manual for film or digital.  If this drives me crazy then I can always trying to utilize TTL or P-TTL flash intelligence to get things correct and then go manual so settings don't drift when I don't want them to.  If everything goes right I should have a pair of Cactus RF60 flashes with built-in wireless recievers and a trio of Cactus V6 II wireless transcievers (I know I don't need all of these with the RF60's in the mix) along with a Nissin i40.  The Nissin would be used on top of a V6 II transceiver in the hot shoe of whatever camera I'm using and then the RF60's can be off camera on stands / in light boxes / etc.  I can play with power of each flash to get me the lighting effects I want from three points which should provide hours of fun and learning curve to deal with.  

This is why I want to learn how to use flashes really well with digital first.  Because I can't see spending money on film to get there first + most folks aren't going to care about being shot on film vs. digital anyway.