Heathcare Reform

Total conjecture here.. but..

I'll bet those who are completely against the government plan have never had a close loved one have a severe illness. My friends and coworkers who have had relatives have cancer or a TBI are 100% for it.

The guy I work with just shelled out $7500 out of pocket to get his wife in for a pet scan earlier than his insurance could do it.. He has good insurance.. they just wanted his wife to wait forever and go to some clinic 45 minutes away. He's fed up with the current system. His wife has had pancreatic and double breast cancer. He took her out of state for 6 months of treatment last year. His retirement is basically gone. He's staring the lifetime maximum in it's face and he's working only for the health benefits.

Also..

Where are we on this list and where are the countries with the EVIL SOCIALIZED MEDICENE THAT WILL SEND DEATH PANELS EVERYWHERE KILLING EVERYONE... ZOMG!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

"Yes, exactly. I am living a less-healthy lifestyle than you are. There is absolutely no reason that you should be required to subsidize that for me. I should pay more for health insurance than you do, based on the actuary difference in our chances of needing medical care."

Healthy people go down with awful diseases or have congenital defects come in to play later in life, it's not a 100% that a healthy lifestyle guarantees a healthy life.

My wife broke her leg a week and a half ago. Between the $2k deductible and my 20 % I figure my share of the bill will be $5-7000. I will pay that happily rather than receive government health care. The initial visit took less than 2 hours, surgery happened the following morning at 7am. She had shattered her tibia in about 10 pieces. The stitches came out today in an office visit that lasted less than 45 minutes.

I can't get through the DMV in 2 hours most of the time and the local post office isn't much better. I work in the local VA hospital regularly and seen what their ORs look like and the antique equipment they use. I have also seen the lines to get a MRI or a prescription filled. Why in the world would I want to let the government run the health care system. You want a government health care that fine by me, but don't make me pay for it or force me to participate. No government agency will ever run as efficiently and as quickly as private enterprise. It hasn't happened in the last 200 years, and if you expect it to happen now you are a gullible idiot.

I'll pass. I don't mind paying top dollar for top service.

In Canada if you need a CT scan the wait time is about a month. Unless you are a dog not on government health care, then you are in the next day.

Pretty good article by John Stossel

http://www.reason.com/news/show/134553.html

Toyman01 wrote: I don't mind paying top dollar for top service. Pretty good article by John Stossel http://www.reason.com/news/show/134553.html

Check my links above. We don't have top service. Our healthcare is well down the line.

John Stossel.. HAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaHAHahAhahaHahahah

holy crap.. that's funny No offense, I just don't take him as a serious reporter. He's on 20/20.. HA.. Ohh god. Thats too funny.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/05/healthy_examples_plenty_of_countries_get_healthcare_right/?page=1

hmm.. it's not socailzed medicine and it works, and the people in those countries are healthier than here. Hmm..

Damn. As my recent acquisition of the awesome-ly fun Diabetes, I was looking toward any kind of help. I live pay check to pay check and the fact that insulin alone is costing me $400 a month hurts. I wasn't looking for a handout, but any dollars lopped off helps to beat hell.

Bummer.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-health-clinic16-2009aug16,0,3772428.story

I remember watching something on TV about this event and one of the doctors likened the need to health care in LA to that of rural Africa. Richest country in the world... Hmmm...

So much I could say, must bite tongue

ignorant wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: I don't mind paying top dollar for top service. Pretty good article by John Stossel http://www.reason.com/news/show/134553.html

Check my links above. We don't have top service. Our healthcare is well down the line. John Stossel.. HAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaHAHahAhahaHahahah holy crap.. that's funny No offense, I just don't take him as a serious reporter. He's on 20/20.. HA.. Ohh god. Thats too funny. http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/05/healthy_examples_plenty_of_countries_get_healthcare_right/?page=1 hmm.. it's not socailzed medicine and it works, and the people in those countries are healthier than here. Hmm..

Two months to see a specialist in the Netherlands? So that means my wife would have had to suffer a broken leg for that long before the orthopedic surgeon would have even seen her? Instead he saw her the same day and preformed the surgery the next day. I'll still pass.

The French system only pays about half of medical expenses. The rest the patient is responsible for. So not only would I still be paying for insurance, I would be paying those "substantial" taxes to boot. I'll still pass.

Obama doesn't want a "French or Dutch" system. By his own words he sees a single payer system in 15-20 years. I'll pass.

Stossel works for ABC news, at least I have heard of them. New Republic? Gee I wonder if they are biased? It was a well written article, but I still pass.

Toyman01 wrote: Stossel

I'm still laughing.. Sorry..

ignorant wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: Stossel

I'm still laughing.. Sorry..

He's not biased either as a libretarian.. HAHAHa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stossel

ignorant wrote: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-health-clinic16-2009aug16,0,3772428.story I remember watching something on TV about this event and one of the doctors likened the need to health care in LA to that of rural Africa. Richest country in the world... Hmmm...

The problem I have is I bet a lot of the 3100 people they gave free health care to have nice cars with the payments that go with them, cell phones and flat screen TV that they watch cable on. When I had to make the choice between health care and cable tv I managed to make the right choice.

I have no problem with government assistance to the people who truly need it. I have been in that position and thankfully accepted the help. I pay a bunch in taxes so others in that position can also get help. I agree that more people need help. I don't want the feds to screw up health care like they screw up everything else they touch. The feds are planning to spend 5 billion on high speed rail. How many people do you think that would help. Personally I think it would be better spent on something other than trains. Or even better the 13 billion in earmarks in the omnibus bill.

ignorant wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: Stossel

I'm still laughing.. Sorry..

He's not biased either as a libretarian.. HAHAHa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stossel

My point is they all are. I spend more time trying to find out if a reporter is reporting or opining that listening to what he says

I will have to admit that I fall close to the libertarian camp (though some of them are pretty wacky). I am getting worse as I get older. All I want the feds to do is keep the barbarians out and leave me the hell alone. I don't want to tell people how to live their lives, but I also don't want them to tell me how to live mine either.

Don't know that I have any answers but I sure can see some problems with our system as it exists.

I fell and broke my leg a year ago. My neighbor fell and pulled a ligament in his leg 3 months ago. Both of us went to the hospital immediate care unit (wife took me, I took him since his wife was out of town) .

They took X-rays and said my leg was broke and they did not see any breaks in his so he would probably need an MRI. They gave us the X-rays and set up an appointment with an orthopedist (same one since I recommended mine to him).

On arrival at the orthopedist the first thing they did was take the same (same angles and number) x-rays again even though we handed them the original x-rays which were 4 hours old for me and 15 hours for him.

Results: my leg was still broke and he still needed an MRI. So I haul him off to get the MRI. Guess what the first thing they did was. Yep, X-ray his leg for the third time in 18 hours.

I see a lot of waste there. Was it caused by the lawyers? Possibly.

Before either of us could have our surgery the Hospital/doctor wanted our family doctor to sign off that we were physically able to have surgery. In both cases our family doctors insisted that we come in for a physical complete with EKG and Blood tests before they would OK the surgery.

I had had a complete physical 3 months before and he had had one 2 weeks before. I might understand my case since it had been 3 months but I don't understand doing his over again. More waste? I think so.

After this was all over we thought we would have some fun comparing bills. On identical services(detemined by using their billing codes) provided by the same person/organization the initial cahrge was the same but his insurance company paid 5% to 20% more than mine. And neither of us had to make up the difference. Doesn't make sense to me!

ignorant wrote: Total conjecture here.. but.. I'll bet those who are completely against the government plan have never had a close loved one have a severe illness. My friends and coworkers who have had relatives have cancer or a TBI are 100% for it.

That is, frankly, borderline insulting and complete hogwash.

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: Total conjecture here.. but.. I'll bet those who are completely against the government plan have never had a close loved one have a severe illness. My friends and coworkers who have had relatives have cancer or a TBI are 100% for it.

That is, frankly, borderline insulting and complete hogwash.

Or Ignorant. Hmmmmm.

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: Total conjecture here.. but.. I'll bet those who are completely against the government plan have never had a close loved one have a severe illness. My friends and coworkers who have had relatives have cancer or a TBI are 100% for it.

That is, frankly, borderline insulting and complete hogwash.

Or is it discrimination against those who have health issues by those who do not?

ohh yeah.. i went there..

(disclosure. I've had 3 eye surgeries in my life to save my sight... 1st at 8 months, I also have wicked asthma....)

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: Total conjecture here.. but.. I'll bet those who are completely against the government plan have never had a close loved one have a severe illness. My friends and coworkers who have had relatives have cancer or a TBI are 100% for it.

That is, frankly, borderline insulting and complete hogwash.

Or is it discrimination against those who have health issues by those who do not? ohh yeah.. i went there.. (disclosure. I've had 3 eye surgeries in my life to save my sight... 1st at 8 months, I also have wicked asthma....)

Nope. The ill in my family made health insurance a priority, so were prepared when the worst came. No flashy cars or TVs, but they had health insurance.

Discrimination against those with interesting priorities, maybe.

ignorant wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

ignorant wrote: Total conjecture here.. but.. I'll bet those who are completely against the government plan have never had a close loved one have a severe illness. My friends and coworkers who have had relatives have cancer or a TBI are 100% for it.

That is, frankly, borderline insulting and complete hogwash.

Or is it discrimination against those who have health issues by those who do not? ohh yeah.. i went there.. (disclosure. I've had 3 eye surgeries in my life to save my sight... 1st at 8 months, I also have wicked asthma....)

Disclosure, daughter with wicked asthma, wife with Scoliosis, and bad knees. I'm just overweight. I also don't expect the government to pay my bills, I can do that on my own.

Its been less than 50 years since people had babies and stayed in the hospital for more than a week, Without Insurance! The problem isn't lack of insurance, it's cost. Fix the real problems, don't tax us to pay for a broken system.

Look, you all really need to pay attention to this. The Gubment already has a Socialized health care system. It's called THE VA. Have you ever been to a VA hospital? Are you a VA patient? I have and I am. I will tell you all with absolute honesty that my primary goal in employment is to get PRIVATE medical so I don't have to use my military benefits.

I was medically retired from the Coast Guard with a Service-Connected problem. That means the military wrote me a letter saying, "yes, we messed up, our bad, here's some medical insurance for the rest of your life" and it took the VA 14 MONTHS to start coverage. No investigation, no courts or decisions, the military TOLD them to cover me and it took OVER A YEAR.

I personally think the care we give our Veteran's is absolute crap and THE most important issue that needs to be fixed. If we can't take care of our Veteran's how in the hell are we supposed to care for everybody?

Trust me, you don't want government health care, ever.

P71 wrote: Look, you all *really* need to pay attention to this. The Gubment already has a Socialized health care system. It's called THE VA. Have you ever been to a VA hospital? Are you a VA patient? I have and I am. I will tell you all with absolute honesty that my primary goal in employment is to get PRIVATE medical so I *don't* have to use my military benefits. I was *medically retired* from the Coast Guard with a *Service-Connected* problem. That means the military wrote me a letter saying, "yes, we messed up, our bad, here's some medical insurance for the rest of your life" and it took the VA 14 MONTHS to start coverage. No investigation, no courts or decisions, the military TOLD them to cover me and it took OVER A YEAR. I personally think the care we give our Veteran's is absolute crap and THE *most* important issue that needs to be fixed. If we can't take care of our Veteran's how in the hell are we supposed to care for everybody? Trust me, you don't want government health care, *ever*.

Interesting that you brought up the VA.

On another board I frequent, someone mentioned the VA as an example for a well-administered government program. He even supplied a link to the same chart that Obama used at a recent townhall meeting.

As if that's proof of efficiency. The VA needs to improve before it can be a "shining light" for health care reform.

For example, my father and an uncle are both veterans of the Korean war. One was infantry, assigned to an artillery unit, the other to a carrier as a jet tech for a Marine unit. Both served in combat zones and both have irrepairable hearing loss as a result.

One receives compensation for his loss, one does not.

If the government cannot provide equal services for those who deserve it most, why should anyone believe it can provide better (and cheaper) care for a few millions more?

I'd sure as E36 M3 take the VA over what Ive got now. (nothing)

And it's not like I'm lazy. The wife and I work 50 hours a week each, during the summer, and whatever we can in the winter.

Joey

Xceler8x wrote:

Duke wrote: Only if people voluntarily choose to work in those industries at no profit.

No one is forcing anyone to work. Should healthcare be a for profit industry? Or should it be for the good of society?

"Not For Profit" does not mean that workers do not get paid or that the business does not expand. It just means you don't have shareholders who get paid from any profit. You are required to keep profit and expenses in equilibrium. The company does not make money, but the people do. If your company does start to turn a profit... then your status changes to being a "for profit" organization.

Or, you pour that profit back into the business in things like employee raises, hiring new employees, or purchasing new equipment. That new equipment can be nice things like "company" vehicles or computers, or such that are "loaned" out to key employees.

joey48442 wrote: I'd sure as E36 M3 take the VA over what Ive got now. (nothing) And it's not like I'm lazy. The wife and I work 50 hours a week each, during the summer, and whatever we can in the winter. Joey

The sad part of this whole debate is that the voices of folks like joey are getting drowned out by folks yelling about "no death panels"