Help me bleed my brakes

I hate bleeding brakes. No amount of pumping ever gets all of the air out. Grrrrrr, I hate it so much. F brakes.

Anyway, I replaced a damaged hard brake line on the front of the Rondo. The new line is in, it is not leaking from anywhere, the system seems to be sealed up tight. But when wifey-poo depresses the brake pedal, holds it down, and I open the bleeder screw, all I get is air. I had her press it about 25 times, still nothing but air.

Should I keep on pressing forever, or does this indicate that there is in fact, new air getting into the system somehow?

Try a gravity bleed. Just open up the bleeder and let it drool until you just get fluid with no air. Keep an eye on the reservoir. This is an amazingly effective way of bleeding.

I'd much rather bleed brakes than clutches... But yeah, bleeding can be frustrating.

Is it only one wheel with the problem, or are they all doing it?

If you're impatient, you can build a pressure bleeder from a spare cap and a garden sprayer:

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/jettatech/bleeder/

Gravity bleeding is pretty awesome though.

Realistically, you don't need to close the bleeder until you start getting fluid, so just pump away. Gravity bleeding is easy to though.

Once you get fluid, you can still do it yourself if you run a tube from the bleeder to a bottle with fluid in it (tube in the fluid). I also coat the exposed threads of the bleeder with thick oil to avoid leakage around them. Grassroots speed bleeding.

all the above ... and yes, you could have someplace that is sucking air in as you pump it out ... those are always tough to find ....

good luck, this might be painful

On some cars with ABS unless the key is "On" you'll never get them fully bled.

You don't ever need to close the bleeder if you leave the end of the tube down in the fluid. Do that and you've a free ez-bleeder setup. Pump away, the fluid will come out, and not go back up.

I had a hell of a time getting the brakes in my Camaro bled a few months back when I did the front calipers and braided stainless lines. Initially, I had some fitting on the lines that were not ALL the way tight, which prevented proper bleeding and pissed out pretty much all the fluid overnight. Went back at it the next day, snugged the fittings down properly and set about bleeding again but for the life of me could not stop getting a steady stream of small bubbles.

Turned out running the system pretty much dry introduced air into the ABS solenoids, or whatever, which then had to be triggered to pump the air out. So, with the car still on jack stands and the key in the on position, I spun one wheel as fast as I could and had my roommate hit the brakes, thereby triggering the ABS. Went back to bleeding and within minutes had a pedal that was firm as a rock.

petegossett wrote: On some cars with ABS unless the key is "On" you'll never get them fully bled.

yeah, forgot about the "problems" that ABS can present when you're trying to bleed the entire system

BTW, every car should have speed bleeders, I don't know why they aren't standard equipment.

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW, every car should have speed bleeders, I don't know why they aren't standard equipment.

Here's a free setup that does exactly that.

An air powered brake bleeder is one of the best things I've spent money on, frustration wise. $30 bucks at Harbor Freight. The only trick to it is removing the bleeder screw and wrapping it with teflon tape on the threads to keep air from coming in while the bleeder has the line under suction. Seriously, money very well spent.

HF Bleeder

I can't add much to the wisdom you just read above, but I'll add this. When bleeding brakes, it's not necessary to pump the brakes multiple times, THEN open the bleeder valve. The system is closed. that air bubble isn't going to move down the line each time you pump it, there is no return brake line from the caliper/wheel cylinder. Pump-hold-open-close-release pedal. Repeat as needed. But if I replace a brake line and don't have a power bleeder, I gravity bleed first.

DrBoost wrote: I can't add much to the wisdom you just read above, but I'll add this. When bleeding brakes, it's not necessary to pump the brakes multiple times, THEN open the bleeder valve. The system is closed. that air bubble isn't going to move down the line each time you pump it, there is no return brake line from the caliper/wheel cylinder. Pump-hold-open-close-release pedal. Repeat as needed. But if I replace a brake line and don't have a power bleeder, I gravity bleed first.

I agree on this. Pumping up a brake system and then holding the pedal down is just not needed. Push down on the pedal, open bleeder. Close when the pedal bottoms out. When you have air in the master then you may have to pump the pedal but if just replacing a caliper or section of line it's unnecessary. Even if bench bleed a master will still have a few air bubbles in it.

I've been lucky as I have never had to replace a master on a car with ABS.

foxtrapper wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: BTW, every car should have speed bleeders, I don't know why they aren't standard equipment.

Here's a free setup that does exactly that.

How would this keep the same fluid(or potentially air) that came out of the caliper from getting drawn back in when you release the brake pedal?

GameboyRMH wrote: How would this keep the same fluid(or potentially air) that came out of the caliper from getting drawn back in when you release the brake pedal?

Good question. I think something that is very important that is not normally pointed out is that you must have an upturn in the bleed hose (best right after the bleeder as shown in the pic). This creates a fluid barrier at the bleeder in case of back flow and allows bubbles to float up away from the bleeder.

dinger wrote: An air powered brake bleeder is one of the best things I've spent money on, frustration wise. $30 bucks at Harbor Freight. The only trick to it is removing the bleeder screw and wrapping it with teflon tape on the threads to keep air from coming in while the bleeder has the line under suction. Seriously, money very well spent. HF Bleeder

you do know that teflon tape isn't recommended for bleeder screws ... that brake fluid will break it down and you run the risk of it eventually getting pulled into the brake system and causing all kinds of problems ... of so I've been told ... specifically by the folk at speed bleeders

aircooled wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: How would this keep the same fluid(or potentially air) that came out of the caliper from getting drawn back in when you release the brake pedal?

Good question. I think something that is very important that is not normally pointed out is that you must have an upturn in the bleed hose (best right after the bleeder as shown in the pic). This creates a fluid barrier at the bleeder in case of back flow and allows bubbles to float up away from the bleeder.

Yep, air bubbles float up. You don't really even need the glass jar, but its more of a mess without. I bought myself a coke about 10 years ago for a buck and made one of these:

Very Handy.

^I have the same setup with a powerade bottle, but even with the upward loop, what keeps the old fluid from getting sucked back in? If you're changing fluid because it's old & black, that's important.

I bleed fluid until the line has good and clear fluid in it too. Maybe its a bit extra fluid, but then I don't have to worry that any old fluid is left.

an old BMWCCA trick (well, thats where I learned it) is to switch back and forth between ATE 200 yellow and ATE super blue (same fluid, different colors). Then it is clearly visible when you can expunged all the old fluid.

Plus, in my experience, VERY little fluid is sucked back up, most of my master cylinders have done a great job of sucking new fluid from the resivoir (clutches are a different story, because the spring pressure pushes everything back up to the master).

Exactly. It's a lot easier for the master to pull fluid from the reservoir instead of sucking it up through the caliper. If you bleed with clear hose, you can see the fluid movement. Much more comes out than goes in.

Robbie wrote: I bleed fluid until the line has good and clear fluid in it too. Maybe its a bit extra fluid, but then I don't have to worry that any old fluid is left. an old BMWCCA trick (well, thats where I learned it) is to switch back and forth between ATE 200 yellow and ATE super blue (same fluid, different colors). Then it is clearly visible when you can expunged all the old fluid. Plus, in my experience, VERY little fluid is sucked back up, most of my master cylinders have done a great job of sucking new fluid from the resivoir (clutches are a different story, because the spring pressure pushes everything back up to the master).

I don't think you can get Super Blue any more. Something about the DOT requires all brake fluid to be yellow/clear in color and it took them 20+ years to notice or give a E36 M3 about Super Blue being, in fact, blue. Whodathunkit???

GameboyRMH wrote: ^I have the same setup with a powerade bottle, but even with the upward loop, what keeps the old fluid from getting sucked back in? If you're changing fluid because it's old & black, that's important.

As noted, not a big issue, but if you want to be sure, just lock down the bleeder, pump up the brakes, then crack the bleeder again. Even without direct pressure on it, there will still be a bit of pressure in the system. (at least on older cars)

Regarding the leaking threads / teflon: I have a can of the engine oil thickener (really thick oil) that a dab a bit of on the top of the bleeder (it seeps around, but sticks pretty good) to prevent any leaks. Wipe off after of course.

I spent an hour with my dad on my old toyota "pump... hold" air, air, air.

took a coffee break, re-evaluated things: The reservoir was dry, the old fluid had stained the opaque reservoir so I kept looking at what I though was a half full reservoir. Added fluid and had it bled in 5 mins.

Maybe not your problem, but the simple stupid things always stump me.