In reply to tuna55 :
You can also get a BlueTooth transmitter to hook up to your TV. That opens the option of BT speakers, or a BT amp with fewer RCA inputs.
In reply to tuna55 :
You can also get a BlueTooth transmitter to hook up to your TV. That opens the option of BT speakers, or a BT amp with fewer RCA inputs.
Hey I looked with tunawife, I can mount some shelves on the sides of the entertainment center and therefore run wires directly into the furniture. It will work well.
In reply to tuna55 :
Nice. Does that answer the last of your major theoretical questions? Just a case of sourcing specific equipment now?
I think that, since your dad enjoys rummaging at estate sales and making finds, that collecting vinyl will be a very fun hobby that will be simple and cheap for the two of you to share together. It's incredibly nerdy fun when you start learning things like, how to decipher the markings in the dead wax (the blank area on the inside between the label and grooves) and identifying all the little details that differentiate what pressings are what.
For hooking TV systems into stereos - results can vary a bit with your TV. Our TV is plugged into a stereo receiver with RCA cables. Both the TV and stereo speakers play when we're watching stuff. The TV remote controls the volume of the TV, but not the stereo speakers. So what we usually do is just keep the stereo set at a medium or medium-low level to support and lend depth to the TV, and use the TV remote to adjust the volume. We'll turn up the stereo volume directly for movies and such.
Do not do that Audio Technica. I have one and while it is ok, the built in phono pre amp sucks (so you would want a phono pre amp anyway), the cartridge is not replaceable and the arm isn't really adjustable. I'd suggest either spending a bit more for the next level up (I think the 120) or find a vintage player.
I think I'd go looking for a home theater oriented receiver with an integrated bluetooth input. That same turntable from the first page of this thread or something similar for records. Run all sources like the Wii and TV etc into the receiver and then drive a pair of "bookshelf" speakers. These could be new or maybe your FIL could find something since he likes doing that sort of thing.
Tony Sestito said:Ahh... vinyl. There are a few different ways to get into this hobby:
-Get a cheapo Crosley all in one thing
-Go absolutely insane and spend thousands on an audiophile setup and the proper listening space
-Go modern and stick to a budget
-Get a bunch of vintage gear that's decent
I fall into the "Get a bunch of vintage gear that's decent " category. My current rig consists of the following:
-Kenwood KR-A3060 receiver ($15 at Savers)
-Denon DCM-280 5-disc MP3 compatible CD changer ($9.99 at Savers)
-Gemini DJQ-1200 direct drive turntable w/Stanton cart ($20 via Craigslist)
-Mirage bookshelf speakers (Free from a friend's dad 25 years ago)
-Ikea steel shelf ($19.99 at Ikea)
OPTIONAL STUFF
-MPow Bluetooth receiver/transmitter thingy ($49.99)
-Amazon Fire HD tablet for streaming digital collection via Jellyfin Server (Freebie someone gave me)
So, I'm into my entire basic rig for $65. I also have a NOS in-the-box 1980 Realistic turntable I've been thinking about swapping in for a bit that I got from some friends. That one's belt drive, so I'm not sure the belt is intact even though it's new. The optional Bluetooth receiver/transmitter can broadcast the sound output to a Bluetooth speaker in the next room or I can connect other devices to it. The tablet serves to stream music to the receiver.
My setup is good enough for me right now. Sounds great and works great. Subtracting the optional bits, it costs less what one of those cheapo Crosley deals sell for, and it's vastly superior and won't tear up your records. Most cheap turntables made today use the same crappy mechanism which can be found on AliExpress/Wish for under $10, and they are crude and rough on vinyl. Audio Technica makes some decent entry level stuff if you're buying new.
As far as actual vinyl records go, you can really go down the rabbit hole here. A lot of sound quality comes from two things: clean records and quality pressings. I use Discogs to find out about specific pressings and to manage my collection. It's pretty good about keeping track of info on what's good and what's trash as far as pressings go. And for cleaning records, you can go nuts here as well. Ultrasonic cleaners and Spinbrush stuff can cost hundreds. I was using a $20 cleaning kit with a felt brush for a while, but that's just OK. I might DIY a Spinbrush-like device myself. Old records can get nasty!
I have those same IKEA racks, they are what my records are on
In reply to hybridmomentspass :
Got a link to them?
If you're up for a bit of DIY, I'd buy a pair of the "C-note" speaker kits from Parts Express. $110/pair. (Although you really need to buy some adhesive damping foam to line the inside of the cabinets, and you'll also need to buy some binding post terminals.) I discovered them through a old thread where Curtis73 recommended them. I repair A/V gear for a living and have to say that I've heard many speakers which cost multiple thousands of dollars and don't sound as good. They're a nice compact package that will play at surprisingly high levels and the bass is quite respectable for the size of the speaker cabinets/ drivers. Really amazing stereo imaging too. Supplement with a subwoofer if you want to have deeper bass or like listening at high levels.
You can buy a modern home theater type AVR if you think you might like to go in the surround sound direction later. I like Denon or Marantz. Almost all of their models will receive bluetooth, can stream internet radio- also Pandora, etc without tying up your phone. Alternately, perhaps you can buy a used, obsolete AVR (something that predates HDMI inputs or whatnot) and just use it as an audio-only system. You can buy a bluetooth receiving dongle and plug that into an AUX input if you want to stream from your phone, connect the turntable to it, etc.
In reply to flat4_5spd :
That sounds really interesting, I'll look into them. I don't mind DIY, but honestly right now I don't think I'm interested in vintage. Is there a DIY turn table? I kind of doubt it
tuna55 said:In reply to flat4_5spd :
Is there a DIY turn table? I kind of doubt it
Vintage is kind of the DIY option for turntables. They're pretty simple and modular pieces of equipment. Buy a used one and replace the cartridge if it needs it. You'll also need an alignment protractor, but those are easy to find and inexpensive. You can even print and laminate them yourself.
Edit: As long as the tonearm is undamaged and the motor works, only other maintenance a turntable is likely to need is - replacing the belt, replace the bearing (only if it's been lost), and lubricating the spindle.
In reply to Beer Baron :
Exactly. Technics TT's seem to be the "57 Chevy" of record players. They work, they're ubiquitous, and there's plenty of stock and hop-up parts for them. And they hold their value.
Loving the C note speakers idea, and there are some others in that price range which would work also. I bought some more wood to build the shelf wings for the entertainment center.
Back to turntables. Here is where I am thinking now, understanding that while valuing vintage gear, I want something with a decent look.
https://www.turntablelab.com/collections/audio-technica-alpha/products/audio-technica-at-lpw40wn-manual-belt-drive-turntable-walnut (this is amazing looking)
https://greenville.craigslist.org/ele/d/easley-many-in-stock-technics-sl-d202/7390741882.html
https://www.amazon.com/U-Turn-Audio-Orbit-Turntable-Black/dp/B00YQ6B396?tag=hicons-20&geniuslink=true&th=1 (love the look of these as well)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224674520735?hash=item344fa51e9f:g:bOgAAOSw6BVhgtqv
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275020400440?hash=item40087e4738:g:2JwAAOSwCAZhgF~x (great price)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165102850346?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28 (clicking sounds easy?)
https://www.audiolab.com/pro-ject-primary-e-audiophile-plug-play-turntable/
I'm not a fan of the Pro-jects (having serviced and set up a handful of them) but truthfully, most modern turntables which aren't multi-thousand-dollar are pretty unimpressive. If I had your buying criteria, I'd go for one of the Audio-Technicas (although the lp3 is seriously plastic-y, so I'd strike that one from the list) or better yet, the used/refurbed Technics from CL. (I don't think that has a built in preamp, so you'd have to buy one or buy a receiver/amp with a built in preamp. But the used Technics is probably much better built than anything newer.) Good luck!
In reply to tuna55 :
I'll mostly echo what was said above. The TL;DR is that my choice would be the walnut finish Audio-Technica LPW40wn, or keep hunting on CL/FBM for a cheap, used TT that you can slap a new cartridge on. Most of my thoughts are just going to come from Google-fu.
The LPW40wn is widely considered one of, if not *the* best "bang for the buck" turntable out there. Features I like: upgraded cartridge that is easy to upgrade further, belt drive, easy dial switch between 33 and 45 RPM, cueing arm, neat and clearly adjustable counterweight and tracking dials. For that last point, look how the counterweight on the back of the arm has neat little lines so you can clearly see the adjustments you're making. You'll notice a smaller dial off to the side for adjusting anti-skate, whereas the tone arm on other TT's you're looking at here "automatically" adjust anti-skate.
To adjust tracking force on the counterweight of the others, you will need a special stylus scale. They're cheap and easy to find, but having a clear dial is a world easier.
https://blog.discogs.com/en/audio-technica-lpw40wn/
As a general rule, direct drive is better for DJ'ing, and belt drive is better for listening. Direct is more resilient, but belt is smoother and isolates the motor: https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/belt-drive-vs-direct-drive-turntables/
For the others you've selected, I would skip the U-Turn on Amazon because it does not include a cuing arm. This will beat up records. If you buy directly from U-Turn, you can get this added as an option though. Quickly customizing a U-Turn with the features I think you would want (cueing arm, acrylyic platter, and preamp out), you're up over $500, and could just buy a Rega Planar 1.
The AT will take you longer to set up, but we're talking and extra 5-20 minutes, most of that time being learning how to balance a tone arm (which is easy). But in the future, replacing or upgrading the cartridge will be easier.
The two edges the U-Turn really has over the AT are the nice acrylic platter and the slightly nicer cartridge. Those are both things that can easily be upgraded on the AT at a later date. Sure, you'll end up spending probably $250 to do both, but that's still the same price range as an Orbit Special with all those features.
Alright, one more to entertain, how about the Fluance RT82?
tuna55 said:Alright, one more to entertain, how about the Fluance RT82?
Another good choice. Very comparable to the AT LPW40.
Advantages of the RT82 - slightly nicer cartridge (same as on the U Turn), heavier platter. Only disadvantage is lack of built-in preamp stage. So you'll spend a few extra dollars, but probably have something nicer.
I also like the look of the Fluance over the AT.
I would favor the Fluance slightly.
Beer Baron said:tuna55 said:Alright, one more to entertain, how about the Fluance RT82?
Another good choice. Very comparable to the AT LPW40.
Advantages of the RT82 - slightly nicer cartridge (same as on the U Turn), heavier platter. Only disadvantage is lack of built-in preamp stage. So you'll spend a few extra dollars, but probably have something nicer.
I also like the look of the Fluance over the AT.
I would favor the Fluance slightly.
Thanks.
It's at the top of the heap for new now, though I admit to liking the look of the pro-ject or u-turn stuff better. I am going to post some "vintage" links as well for you (all) to check out.
To add a couple of thoughts -
Make sure you have a new stylus on whatever you end up with. Vinyl is expensive/valuable these days and carving up the grooves with a worn diamond doesn't make sense. I'd stay away from the generic brand stylus replacements and stick with real OEM.
Get a wet vacuum type record cleaner. I don't think there's any other way to get the crud out of the grooves of a used record, and and occasional cleaning keeps your vinyl nearly new. The fancy automatic cleaners can run $1k+, but there are inexpensive systems that use a shop vac and you can DIY it too. Your stylus will appreciate not being dragged through the grooves of the Jimmy Cliff record that was used as a plate for Taco Bell before you picked it up at the rummage sale...
I have never heard audiophile quality sound via Bluetooth. If you do go Bluetooth, check into the different standards (AptX) and make sure your gear will support HD transmission.
If you're considering the C-Notes, consider the Overnight Sensations. Built a pair with my son, and they sound remarkable. I'm sure either would be fine.
Obligatory bragging image:
I always thought these Optonica turntables were neat back in the day, because their dust covers were a counterbalanced hinged piece of plate glass. They seem to bring pretty good money these days. My ordinary JVC QL-A200 still works fine, and I bought it new back in, oh what was it? 1983?
Vintage is a tough sell for me, the look just isn't there. I do like the MIJ idea though.
This one appears to be in amazing condition and from Japan directly, but I don't know if I have to handle AC power issues.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203683611336?hash=item2f6c7d42c8:g:ca8AAOSw5jBhgdrT
https://reverb.com/item/43954761-rotel-rp-2500-1970-s-w-nagatron-165s-cartridge-nice-shape
https://reverb.com/item/42403332-bang-olufsen-beogram-1600-mmc-10e-silver-wood-grain
https://reverb.com/item/46634323-dual-1228-fully-automatic-turntable-serviced-wood
Or please, if you know of good vintage stuff that look simple and elegant and doesn't require a project, by all means, attach a link.
BTW is the music hall stuff the same as the Fluance? They look very similar.
Basically the MMF or Fluance look better to me than the vintage stuff I posted, and I don't really want another project. I like the idea of MIJ or even US, but I am not sure if there is a tangible benefit over the MMF of Fluance.
jwagner (Forum Supporter) said:Get a wet vacuum type record cleaner.
Any particular recommendations? I'd like something simple, effective, and relatively economical.
(Record Doctor V looks like it's probably about what I'd want.)
I've got a KAB EV-1 record cleaner which works really well. It's basically a manual version of a vacuum system. The Record Doc V is pretty much the same thing with a built in vacuum. Vinyl Vac 33 looks interesting and at $30 it's really cheap if it works. I've got one on order to play with - might be a good xmas present for a vinyl geek grandson.
A couple of years ago I spent an absurd amount of time researching record cleaning chemistry and came up with the "ultimate" solution. Without diving into TMI, I like cleaners with about 12% isopropyl alcohol plus distilled water, and a bit of surfactant. A couple drops of photographic Ifotol per pint works well. I pretty much had a product and business ready to launch until a friend who was an ace on Amazon analytics told me I would probably sell a total of about fifteen bottles a month. Have enough record cleaning fluid in my basement for several lifetimes plus all my friends.
@tuna55, if you do pick up a used table like the Rotel, be really careful on stylus condition. From the ad: "Stylus was not checked under a microscope, but plays OK. A compatible stylus is still in production affordably." is basically a warning that you will need to buy a new cart (unless you trust a third party stylus). It's not a big deal, a reasonable Audio Technica cart is less than forty bucks, but you can spend a whole lot more if you're inclined.
If you go for vintage, a few things to remember:
But if I were buying a new turntable today, I would not be getting an automatic (they break, in my experience), and I would avoid Music Hall and Pro-Ject unless I could hear it through my speakers. I would be taking a close look at this Teac, though I've never heard one, I've had Teac components in the past and been happy with them.
I bought a Spin-Clean washer last year when I put all my vinyl up for sale. It's not the be all/end all of cleaners but the clean/$ and clean/hassle ratios are excellent.
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