My favorite nephew as seen here has been home brewing with my brother for a while. He's really wanting to get into the microbrewery world and wonders what are the best steps to take. I know a few of you guys work in microbreweries so hopefully you can help him with ideas. He's registered so I'll text him a link to this thread and maybe he can ask questions better than I can.
What does he want to do? There's a lot more to the "world" than just brewing (or selling or bartending or distributing or growing an excellent mustache). My suggestion is to think outside the box.
For example, one of my best friends started Denver microbrew tour over 10 years ago and that's turned into a serious business. Just walking people between breweries and telling them about stuff in between giving them samples.
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
I think he's wanting to be on more of the brewing side but hopefully he'll be along soon to fill us in.
http://huttonandsmithbrewing.com/ is hiring in Chattanooga if I remember right. Their Igneous IPA is very good and Chattanooga is a pretty cool town.
With zero brewing or business experience I opened a "Brew on premise" and ran it for 8 years. Learned a E36 M3load about brewing, plumbing, refrigeration, sanitation, business and customer relations at the end of 8 years.
With no experience, the best you are going to get in the microbrew community is glorified dishwashing unless you pony up as a partner. That said, it is a foot in the door.
Pete
Yeah, I'd say that if he can't float it as a partner, his options are go and ask for a job or go to school for it, like Beer Baron did.
As an addendum to what I posted above, the more profitable part of the business was making wine from kits for people. Very low investment and a little filtration and bottling equipment made for much better wine than most people would achieve at home on their own. You could do this in a garage.
He's going to want to get a celler person position. Cleaning the equipment organization more cleaning sanitation more cleaning more organizing more cleaning. Some assistance in kegging, some in canning and also some in brewing.
My number one recommendation would be for him to not get comfortable and complacent at whichever brewery he starts, even if they treat him fantastically. A large percentage of brewery owners feel that the market is now mature and growth is stagnant. This maybe shaded by covid and reduced tap room traffic over nearly the past 2 years. Most operations either self-distribute or wholesale kegs to restaurants and tap rooms, with a very limited amount of production going towards canning that is destined for distribution, because of this the industry was battered pretty badly over the past 18 months. Because of that most owners are just playing things close to their vest now, when they should be investing in equipment that provides them flexibility.
Most brewing positions that are advertised and filled by external candidates want two to three years of professional experience. Being a celler person would effectively be looked at as an apprenticeship that would count towards those requirements especially if he excelled. If he were interested in relocating to the Baltimore metro area I could get him in somewhere by September 1st.
Thank you guys for all of the great information. I really like the idea of starting in a cellar person position. I was going back and forth between school or no school. School is great, but I'm not that interested in taking out more loans. I'm currently working on a farm and need to be here until November 1st in order to fulfill my obligation. Let me think about Baltimore. My first thought was to relocate to the Greenville SC area or possibly Asheville NC. Should I be picky about what brewery I try to work for at first, if so what qualities am I looking for?
In reply to Benjyjoe :
Greenville and Ashville would be a perfect spot, I'm actually literally looking at both towns, and have been for a few years, for a distillery location. With regards to which brewery, for a cellar person the current organization, work flow processes and quality of equipment is what I would be focused on, then after that management, though you'll be able to tell a lot about management from the work flow processes and equipment. When moving on from cellar person to a brewery, then management will become a bigger part of the equation, as allocation of resources and budgeting will then greatly affect your job, working conditions and product that you can produce.
A nano brewery will provide a greater opportunity for cross training to that allows for upward career advancement then going to work for a Sierra Nevada or Wicked Weed, even though those breweries have more opportunity, their decision making management wouldn't be in contact with you or seeing your work every day. This management blindly assumes you're in a role that you want, or at least the one you want there. So as small as you're comfortable and confident as can handle economic downturns and another potential lock down (for any reason) is really the direction I'd go.
Thanks for your time captdownshift. I'm glad to hear the upstate is a good place to land in this industry. I definitely feel equipped with the advice and knowledge I was looking for. Thank you guys again.
Ben
There is a school in Connecticut that recently started offering a degree program in brewing. I forget which one, but it's one of the smaller schools in New Haven or Fairfield Counties.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
University of Vermont has an excellent program on the business side of brewing, that includes some brewing as well, but the program is focused on being financial viable and profitable at all sizes of operations through out the life cycle of the business. One of the things that's interesting about the industry is that there isn't a labor shortage, now it's questionable with regards to the quality of the labor, but most are willing to or open to being trained to how YOU want things done. So success and execution falls upon the processes set forth by management and ownership. There are fewer quality managers and owners out there, and when I say quality, I don't mean that they aren't good people (yes the industry has a significant problem with sexual harassment, and I'm not defending that or saying that it's not a significant problem, it is, but it is also less than 5% of the industry that we know of and only 3 or 4 cases where it appears to have been a toxic culture at a brewery, instead of the actions of a single individual, but I digress) most managers and owners are good people, they're just questionable with regards to business sense and managing to be profitable. They're too passionate and too many aspects of the business are pet projects to them. I equate it to a professional sports franchise owner that meddles in roster decisions instead of letting the GM so their job and just showing up to hold up a trophy once a championship is won.
This makes it so that you can learn the brewing process and standards just about anywhere, but you won't learn how to make money doing it on your own anywhere. It also creates a self-indulging behavior amongst ownership, which feeds their desire for more pet projects. They develop a mindset of, if I'm not going to make as much money as my head brewer then I should at least be able to create a space that I envision that I enjoy spending time at and think is really cool. So then they throw more money on aspects of a tap room environment that isn't needed and doesn't drive sustainable profitability, instead of engineering flexibility into the business starting at the back of the house and improving production efficiency to improve yields.
In reply to Benjyjoe :
I am the brewmaster at Endeavor Brewing and Spirits in Columbus, OH. I went through the certified brewmaster program at VLB Berlin. I've worked for a number of breweries including North Coast Brewing.
Feel free to PM me for any details, questions, or advice.
First thing to be aware of is that production brewing is not like home brewing. It is shift work. It is fairly monotonous. It is rarely creatively fulfilling. It took me a lot of work to get into a position for it to be so for me.
If you've been working on a farm, that honestly is a HUGE leg up over most brewery candidates. I honestly do not give a E36 M3 about someone's homebrew experience. Those skills don't transfer. More of your skills and attitude from hard farm work will transfer to production brewing than any amount of home brewing experience. In any resume, lead with that.
Seriously, seeing you've worked on a farm changed my perception of you from, "Oh god, another homebrewer who thinks they want to get into production brewing," to, "Oh, someone who likes solving mechanical problems and seeing tangible results from hard, messy work."
Education is good. My education really has proven to be invaluable. If you want to move up to a head brewer or brewmaster position where you can actually make decent money and enjoy some of the fun creativity. Getting a formal education really helped me get my foot in the door and taken seriously. You can study brewing informally and gain the information you need. Buy a copy of Technology of Brewing and Malting by Wolfgang Kunze. Treat it as a reference book. Don't read books written for homebrewers.
Go to Probrewer.com to look for jobs. Don't move to a place and then look for a job. Apply for what you can, and then relocate. When gauging the quality of employers, look for breweries that have been around a while. Cleanliness is king. Ask them about their sanitation practices. Ask them about the health and safety practices. Look for a place that treats brewing as a serious business, and not just a hobby.
Do not work for any place that wants you to do an "internship" (unless you're wrapping up a formal education and it is an internship program related to that education).
Don't just look in the "cool" places to brew. Those places are already inundated with breweries and applications. There isn't as much room to grow. If you're serious about getting into things, expect to bounce around the country a couple times. I've worked in Minnessota, bfe California, and Ohio. I did really well settling in Columbus 8 years ago as a location that was up and coming in craft brewing, but not yet saturated. It's worked out pretty well.
I can tell you several notoriously terrible big-name players to avoid. I can recommend a few good places to look into.
Again, PM me for any specific information you'd like.
In reply to Beer Baron :
You mean there's a reason that Trillium has been looking for a new hear brewery for roughly a year now 
+1 on all of your input.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
I was thinking that Rogue and Stone are notorious for chew up / spit out workers. A couple others in that realm I could list, too.
Brewmaster/Brewery owner here as well, cool to see a few of us here!
Beer Baron and Capt covered a lot of points I'd like to echo-
- homebrewing experience matters none, work ethic and mechanical aptitude are all that matter for anyone I bring in.
- Learn to love monotony and small details, especially at first. Brewing at a quiality facility is nothing but repitition until it can be done in one's sleep.
- I'd advise against considering any 'hype' brewery to start getting your feet under you. Like others said, the turnover and burnout rates are insanely high, and they typically 'partition' newbs to prevent them from developing a skillset more valuable than your pay rate.
- Cellaring doesn't make a lot of money, but wages in the brewing industry are much improved, and are only getting better. You can make a livable wage much faster nowadays starting out than when I got into the industry, that's for sure.
- Don't scrimp on proper footware.
- Don't be an idiot- wear PPE, always. Even when you don't think you'll need it. Sincerely, my deaf left ear.
- If you can be choosy about where to start, try to find a small to midsized brewery, something like 2-10k barrels output (you can ask, or you can look it up as public record on the Brewers Association Website) is the sweet spot I find for new hires. It's not so large that you are a number doing a singular task, but its big enough that it allows you to grow a bit across the different departments of a brewery (packaging, cellaring, brewing, micro, tasting room, etc...). I find that if you are able to prove mechanical competence and a solid work ethic, you will be noticed quickly and cross-trained more often. Learn everything you can.
Like Capt said too, it's EXTREMELY rare that your first brewing gig will be your long-term employer. Don't be afraid to look around at other options in a not-too-long timeframe. The learning and employement curve in brewing is fast.
Good luck.
golfduke said:- Don't scrimp on proper footware.
- Don't be an idiot- wear PPE, always. Even when you don't think you'll need it. Sincerely, my deaf left ear.
Hands, feet, eyes, and ears! Long pants that go OVER your boots.
I'm all about the Muck Chore ST boots, with the thickest Dr. Scholl's inserts I can find. And thick wool socks.
Just because a place burns you out, doesn't mean it can't be valuable. I had one place I worked at that I'm very glad I did. I was trained well and learned a LOT from my time there. I also have zero regrets about getting the hell out of there.
Prepare for steam burns and chemical burns and protect accordingly. I feel like an idiot for having overlooked the footwear protection aspect. I kept Keefe's working hands on hand at all times at work and home as well, as even under gloves, the condensation and stuff that creeps under is brutal, even when changing them ever 2-3 hours or more.
Footwear wise I always say imagine that you're going hiking for a weekend and it's going to rain 3 in that weekend in addition to good boots and socks your boots need to be steel toed. You guys are spot on.
I don't miss those working conditions. There's a reason brewers all end up long and lean.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:Prepare for steam burns and chemical burns and protect accordingly.
I watched a coworker get blasted in the face with boiling foam from the kettle. Fortunately he only got first degree burns on the surface of his eyes.
Watched a trainee take a boot full of 200+ water. 2nd degree burns and shortened hours for the next several weeks. I had to argue with our higher ups that I was right for sending him home halfway through his shifts to avoid worsening his injuries so he couldn't work at all.
Plenty of steam burns. 1st degree caustic burns. Endless times hitting my head on THAT SAME berkeleyING HOSE BARB!
Worst situation I've been in was a CO2 leak in a multi-story cellar when I was working in the bottom floor. Started breathing heavy. Then I got sparklies at the corner of my vision which began tightening in. As soon as I realized what was happening, I ran out of there for fresh air.
yeah, CO2 leaks used to keep me up at night. Finally bought a $$$ CO2 detector system in the facilities, worth every penny.
I'm a workboots over wellies guy, but different strokes really. I love my Keen Bellows-flex. They are the only boot to last over a year in the work environment without murdering my feet. Good insoles help too though, like you said.
Also, learn to love the heat and humidity, because that's 90% of the breweries you'll be working in. Typing this as I'm knocking out a lager in 105 degree heat indexes and my hot liquor tank is overflowing... It's... moist.
golfduke said:Also, learn to love the heat and humidity, because that's 90% of the breweries you'll be working in. Typing this as I'm knocking out a lager in 105 degree heat indexes and my hot liquor tank is overflowing... It's... moist.
The other 10% will be 35* walk-in fridges.
Beer Baron said:golfduke said:Also, learn to love the heat and humidity, because that's 90% of the breweries you'll be working in. Typing this as I'm knocking out a lager in 105 degree heat indexes and my hot liquor tank is overflowing... It's... moist.
The other 10% will be 35* walk-in fridges.
or -10 deep freezes, haha. 'Temperate' is not in my vocabulary.
Ben should be in here hopefully this afternoon but I really really want to thank all of you guys for helping him out.
The more I read everyone's comments, the more I think this could be a really good path for me. I worked in back of house for awhile before getting into farming, so I'm used to the hot/wet conditions! Farming has its fair share of that too, as well as other things. A part of me thinks I may enjoy cleaning up yeast more so than pig poop. When I was a prep cook, I enjoyed the daily ritual which was basically doing the same thing every day but trying to figure out how to execute it more efficiently.
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