Heroin epidemic

^Honestly, that sounds more like the actual pain and recovery from surgery.

Taking Oxycontin for 3 days doesn't wack you out so bad that you are then in withdrawal for 3 days.

To me, the constipation takes all of the fun out of them.

I've been on opiods a few times for various motorcycle related injuries, both times I was on them for 2 weeks taking the dosage 3 times per day for 2+ weeks and didn't experience the "withdrawal" symptoms mentioned.

I guess some may be more sensitive to things of that nature, but I've never heard of having withdrawal symptoms after 3 days of taking them. I didn't after two weeks. It takes a bit longer and heavier use to go into that kind of withdrawal.

spitfirebill wrote: To me, the constipation takes all of the fun out of them.

That was another reason I got off of them as quickly as I could- that was NOT fun, especially for someone who rarely has that issue (I'm lactose intolerant- I usually have the opposite problem...).

z31maniac wrote: I've been on opiods a few times for various motorcycle related injuries, both times I was on them for 2 weeks taking the dosage 3 times per day for 2+ weeks and didn't experience the "withdrawal" symptoms mentioned. I guess some may be more sensitive to things of that nature, but I've never heard of having withdrawal symptoms after 3 days of taking them. I didn't after two weeks. It takes a bit longer and heavier use to go into that kind of withdrawal.

After about two weeks I went into dt's a little. Ex wife was worse. Do not want.

Perfect!

EDIT: DAmmit, it won't embed.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/alan-a-video-junkie/81302474/

Used to think what the berkeley ever makes someone ever wanna try crack, meth or heroin. After watching the Frontline piece I have a better understanding of prescription opioid addiction and the crossover to heroin. People that try it for a new high are still shiny happy people in my book and receive no empathy from me.

I pass a methadone clinic at 6 a.m. every day on my work commute, they're lined up out the door and now there are transit buses bringing patients in. Sobering observation is they look like everyday people that you'd meet anywhere... the grocery store or mall, 20's thru 50's, mostly middle class looking. Heroin is not a ghetto drug anymore. In degrees of separation, seems everybody knows somebody addicted.

My grandfather became addicted to Percs after a bad car accident. He wasn't the same man after that, he became mean w/o his meds, like we didn't even know him anymore. Helluva way to spend your senior years, 70's btw.

Changed my mind also about user incarceration for user possession, mandatory rehab is the new answer here IMO, fail that then it's prison. Downside is addiction is ceating new criminals w/ theft, robberies etc. It's becoming more common around here tho, so common it's not reported by the media anymore. Thwarted a break-in a couple weeks ago at 10 am, had I not confronted the pair outside I truly believe they'd be in my house. Really don't wanna be in this position at all but I'd do what I had to do.

Dealers, now although I understand the user that sells to keep them in their fix, they deserve prison as well. Then there are predators (not users themselves) that are only in it for the money. Several big busts around here, they were just businessmen w/ cash at hand who got too greedy. These are the real whores who have wrecked countless lives and families. They deserve nothing less than public torture or stoning for lives ruined or lost, prison should not be an option. There's a special place in hell for them.

Much talk about pharma companies and doctors prescribing but no reforms substantial yet. C'mon man, how the berkeley can y'all keep to the status quo of throwing drugs at patients when you obviously see the outcome of addiction, ruined lives, families and deaths.

There needs to be a new accountability w/ pharma and the prescribers.

Like to think we're all drug free and safe in our lives but we all may be just an accident or disease away from opioid prescriptions and possible addiction. No matter how stalwart any of us remain that's what scares me these days.

Rant over

STM317 wrote: After the heroin epidemic comes the bloodborne disease epidemic. AIDS is on the comeback not far from me. It's gotten bad enough that the state is providing clean needles for people without threat of prosecution to try and stave off the needle sharing.

Are you in Southern Indiana? If not its a similar situation to what is going on here. IIRC they found and arrested the supposed index case of the AIDs outbreak. Meth has been focused on so hard and demand so high, Heroin is dirt cheap and easy to get. Had a guy at work just deal with a friend OD'ing on it and the local news had a case south of Indy of a lady passing out in her car OD'ing in a Dollar General parking lot with a 4mo old in the car.

spitfirebill wrote: To me, the constipation takes all of the fun out of them.

This, so much.

I was prescribed some for a back injury. The constipation was so bad, the back injury seemed like a minor discomfort. That's the last time I've taken them and that was 20 years ago.

If Ibuprofen won't solve it, I'll just suffer through the pain.

I do understand the slide into drug addiction especially the drugs similar to the prescription pain killers. I went through a few medical issues. They gave me Percocet, my first time using such a product. I got better and only had 3 or so pills left. I decided I was done taking them. I actually hesitated throwing them away. It was a feeling I never felt before. I didn't know why I hesitated over the trash bin. I quickly flushed them. (Realize now that isn't very good for our wildlife but I was unaware then.)

Powerful drugs they are. I think a good program would be that the prescribing Dr should be coming back around to make sure you get off them more easily.

alfadriver wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: Apparently people start on prescription opioids and move on the heroin because its cheaper and easier to get.

repeated for posterity. The older I get, I have noticed an interesting trend in Doctors- there has been a trend toward throwing medicine at anything. To the point that my MIL has drugs to offset the side effects of other drugs. Second- Doctors seem to be trending to be more statisticians than scientists. By that I mean they trend toward the most statistically possible solution as opposed to actually solving problems. And recent big information computer trends make that worse- as computers are really good a doing massive statistics. So if you walk into a doctors office with occasional chest pain, but are healthy, active (running a lot), and have no chemistry problems- they tell you that you are not a risk factor for heart disease. Not at all helping you figure out what the problem is. Sorry about the rant, as it should go into another thread. But I think that "statistical" trend is what is pushing so many opioids in the first place. Not solving the root pain problem- they try to "make it go away". Which ends up making a painful situation turn into a dangerous drug dependence situation.

It's not so much an issue of make it go away as a covering of the bases for a possible frivolous medical malpractice lawsuit.

And the uptick in heroin usage is directly tied to the crackdown on prescription pain killers recently. It'll get worse before it gets better.

In Cali we have people using mj, meth, and heroin at the same time. They use one to offset the symptoms of the use of another.

The law here basically works like this, you use drugs, get arrested, booked, then enter into a court 'supervised' drug program. They can be put on the 'supervised' program repeatedly and it usually compounds over and over. People that don't want the help ain't gonna take advantage of the 1000s of programs out there. Just like homeless populations won't take advantage of 1000s of programs to assist the homeless.

From my point of view, I don't care what people do to themselves, but when you start stealing over and over and over to support your drug habit, I certainly have a problem with it. Go into meth psychosis and attack random people, also not cool. Drive while high as hell and endanger others, just stupid.

I have yet to see a good argument for decriminalization that has said anything about the decrease in crimes that have a nexus to drug use/procurement, like theft/robbery. Does anyone have an article that speaks on that rather than how amazing it is that people can now use drugs all they want?

If you decriminalize use, are you going to decriminalize sales of controlled substances? If use is decriminalized, is it cool for people to now OD and have the dealer not be held responsible for the death of the user?

As a side, I certainly agree that strong painkillers are certainly over prescribed. I once got a piece of metal in my eye. It got picked out but had scratched the eyeball. Doctor wrote on a tablet and said take this for 3 days. Went to pick up the prescription, 120 pills of hydrocodone. When I said I didn't need that many pills, the pharmacist said I could take the bottle or refuse the prescription. What a mess!

Several years ago I had surgery for removal of a cancerous kidney. Coming out of the anesthesia, they gave me hydrocodone for pain. Result was quickly projectile vomiting. That was the end of my experiment with opioids. Guess I was lucky.

It's a bad problem. From the physician perspective, there was a big push to treat pain more effectively. Pain is the 5th vital sign

The options are basically NSAIDs (ibuprofen, etc) and Tylenol. These are mostly over the counter and work okay. Then there are opioids, which work pretty well but are addicting, sedating, and cause constipation and nausea. The side effect profile sucks but there are no real alternatives if the agents from the first categories aren't working. Sure there are drugs for nerve pain, lidocaine patches which work locally, and a few other options for specific cases, but by and large, our options are limited.

Americans want cheap insurance with no deductible but want to be able to go to my ER at 3AM and get an unnecessary MRI. They want their pain to be eliminated with no side effects. People don't or won't understand that there has to be compromise or sacrifice somewhere. Until something better is discovered we just have to restrict prescribing, which is getting better now that there isn't so much push from medical societies and organizations to treat all the pain.

Still, I'm arguing with patients about pain meds on every shift and explaining why I can't give them any, or more, or stronger, and these are almost all people with real pain from real problems. The sketchy ones get shut down immediately. Overall, it's a soul suck and one of the worst things about working in an ER. I'm glad the problem is so well publicized because it's helping docs limit prescriptions. 120 pills for a foreign body to the eye is preposterous. I hope such stories are a thing of the past. Still, people will keep getting surgeries which cause incredible pain and justify largest prescriptions with more risk. I could rant all night... I'll shut it down.

HunterBenz wrote: In Cali we have people using mj, meth, and heroin at the same time. They use one to offset the symptoms of the use of another. The law here basically works like this, you use drugs, get arrested, booked, then enter into a court 'supervised' drug program. They can be put on the 'supervised' program repeatedly and it usually compounds over and over. People that don't want the help ain't gonna take advantage of the 1000s of programs out there. Just like homeless populations won't take advantage of 1000s of programs to assist the homeless. From my point of view, I don't care what people do to themselves, but when you start stealing over and over and over to support your drug habit, I certainly have a problem with it. Go into meth psychosis and attack random people, also not cool. Drive while high as hell and endanger others, just stupid. I have yet to see a good argument for decriminalization that has said anything about the decrease in crimes that have a nexus to drug use/procurement, like theft/robbery. Does anyone have an article that speaks on that rather than how amazing it is that people can now use drugs all they want? If you decriminalize use, are you going to decriminalize sales of controlled substances? If use is decriminalized, is it cool for people to now OD and have the dealer not be held responsible for the death of the user? As a side, I certainly agree that strong painkillers are certainly over prescribed. I once got a piece of metal in my eye. It got picked out but had scratched the eyeball. Doctor wrote on a tablet and said take this for 3 days. Went to pick up the prescription, 120 pills of hydrocodone. When I said I didn't need that many pills, the pharmacist said I could take the bottle or refuse the prescription. What a mess!

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