Fueled by Caffeine said:In reply to stroker :
There is video and audio of American and British voices in a fire fight.
There are multiple international volunteer fighting groups in Ukraine so they could well be ex-British or US military
Fueled by Caffeine said:In reply to stroker :
There is video and audio of American and British voices in a fire fight.
There are multiple international volunteer fighting groups in Ukraine so they could well be ex-British or US military
Social media shows lots of heavy engagements in Kiev tonight. Some folks are reporting the Russians are making a push for city center currently.
In reply to FatMongo :
By "sizeable", I'm guessing something between 25 to 50.
"FOID"? I Googled it but couldn't find a military application for that acronym.
There is a strategic air base south of Kiev called Vasylkiv. This air base appears to be a major Russian objective this evening. The Russians are assaulting it with their VDV. Guessing the Il-76 that is being reported down was part of this assault.
Zelensky and his government may not make it through the next 48 hours if they insist on staying in Kiev.
In reply to stroker :
Biden has said no US troops in Ukraine and NATO is a defensive alliance. Putting troops on the ground in Ukraine is against the strategic goals (such as avoiding nuclear holocaust) of everybody involved.
Having said that, would it be useful propaganda for the Russians to dub some US voices over some live feeds and release it on Twitter? Absolutely. EDIT: Or maybe not? Dunno really.
stroker said:In reply to FatMongo :
By "sizeable", I'm guessing something between 25 to 50.
"FOID"? I Googled it but couldn't find a military application for that acronym.
Foreign Internal Defense - which is a primary mission of our Special Forces.
The poster said there was NATO SF conducting FOID and sabotage. I find it extremely unlikely there are NATO troops of any sort in territorial Ukraine. There is 0 direct action missions that NATO would undertke and any collection missions can be done remotely or with unmanned assets.
So yes, this isnt a Tom Clancy novel, its real world.
CrustyRedXpress said:In reply to stroker :
Biden has said no US troops in Ukraine and NATO is a defensive alliance. Putting troops on the ground in Ukraine is against the strategic goals (such as avoiding nuclear holocaust) of everybody involved.
Having said that, would it be useful propaganda for the Russians to dub some US voices over some live feeds and release it on Twitter? Absolutely.
Would the word "troops" include contractors?
FatMongo said:Social media shows lots of heavy engagements in Kiev tonight. Some folks are reporting the Russians are making a push for city center currently.
They are at the Zoo, only a few miles (west) from the city center. They are also attacking from the North (other side of the river). Looks like the Russians are making their push into the city (it's 4 am there now).
The IL-76 that was shot down was probably reinforcing the attack on Kiev (it was shot down south west of Kiev)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Pretty much every person that I've met that was around a10s absolutely love them
The A10 has zero applicability to a modern battlefield or a peer adversary, unless you have 100s of them and the stomach to lose them at high volume. Without CAP or SEAD support they will become extinct against a peer adversary.
It is what is - no amount of History channel buffoonery will change the facts.
I am curious if the Russians will avoid armored vehicles in the city because of the threat of Javelins. I would not take much to pop out a window, launch and run. I don't know what the minimum range is (100m?), but it would certainly be need to be used in direct (not top) attack mode.
I do hope the Ukrainians have come up with some clever defensive schemes. They have had time to prepare, and likely some help with ideas (?)
aircooled said:I am curious if the Russians will avoid armored vehicles in the city because of the threat of Javelins. I would not take much to pop out a window, launch and run. I don't know what the minimum range is (100m?), but it would certainly be need to be used in direct (not top) attack mode.
I do hope the Ukrainians have come up with some clever defensive schemes. They have had time to prepare, and likely some help with ideas (?)
I wonder why they haven't learned to make sticky grenades to put on tanks like the Afghans learned.
Aside from seeing the 0351s/0352s carry them, I dont have much familiarity with the Javelin, but I do recall it does have a significant backblast area - making it not ideal for urban deployment - or at least from firing positions within urban structures.
stroker said:y'know, it just occurred to me that this situation is precisely what the Green Berets in Europe were training for since the early 60's. The only significant difference would be the need to speak Russian instead of German. Somehow I don't think the US Army Special Forces are wanting for Russian-speaking troops. I have to believe the other NATO members also have special forces units dedicated to training and conducting guerrilla warfare. I'd bet a six pack of beer there are a sizeable contigent of NATO troops currently on the ground in Ukraine...
It's funny, I've been watching YouTube videos on special forces and as soon as this popped off I thought, If I was a fighting man, I'd take some of those special forces units that are designed to disrupt governments, and drop them in Russia. Seems like a crazy move but if you've got people designed to train other people to topple governments, a very large population that isn't happy with what you're doing, and a large contingent of your own troops off playing war in another country, seems like an opportunity to maybe make them reconsider what they're doing in a hurry.
It would further not surprise me that some extreme black bag guys with little to no moral compass and extremely well padded checkbooks would be allowed carte blanche to to go shoot at Russians and help out the little guy. God knows we've all been paying privateers to do the dirt for decades, why stop now? (Not to mention I know a few guys personally that would think it was Christmas if you handed them a javelin, an hti, a box of ammo and told em to go have fun...they'd do it for free. )
FatMongo said:Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Pretty much every person that I've met that was around a10s absolutely love them
The A10 has zero applicability to a modern battlefield or a peer adversary, unless you have 100s of them and the stomach to lose them at high volume. Without CAP or SEAD support they will become extinct against a peer adversary.
It is what is - no amount of History channel buffoonery will change the facts.
I have no experience with them so I can't say one way or another.
FatMongo said:Aside from seeing the 0351s/0352s carry them, I dont have much familiarity with the Javelin, but I do recall it does have a significant backblast area - making it not ideal for urban deployment - or at least from firing positions within urban structures.
I thought the Javelins didn't have much backblast. Or is that the British version that the Ukrainians have a bunch of.
It was in a news article though so who knows if it was correct
Mndsm said:stroker said:y'know, it just occurred to me that this situation is precisely what the Green Berets in Europe were training for since the early 60's. The only significant difference would be the need to speak Russian instead of German. Somehow I don't think the US Army Special Forces are wanting for Russian-speaking troops. I have to believe the other NATO members also have special forces units dedicated to training and conducting guerrilla warfare. I'd bet a six pack of beer there are a sizeable contigent of NATO troops currently on the ground in Ukraine...
It's funny, I've been watching YouTube videos on special forces and as soon as this popped off I thought, If I was a fighting man, I'd take some of those special forces units that are designed to disrupt governments, and drop them in Russia. Seems like a crazy move but if you've got people designed to train other people to topple governments, a very large population that isn't happy with what you're doing, and a large contingent of your own troops off playing war in another country, seems like an opportunity to maybe make them reconsider what they're doing in a hurry.
It would further not surprise me that some extreme black bag guys with little to no moral compass and extremely well padded checkbooks would be allowed carte blanche to to go shoot at Russians and help out the little guy. God knows we've all been paying privateers to do the dirt for decades, why stop now? (Not to mention I know a few guys personally that would think it was Christmas if you handed them a javelin, an hti, a box of ammo and told em to go have fun...they'd do it for free. )
Part of me wants to think that's exactly what's happening now but I can't be sure
FatMongo said:Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Pretty much every person that I've met that was around a10s absolutely love them
The A10 has zero applicability to a modern battlefield or a peer adversary, unless you have 100s of them and the stomach to lose them at high volume. Without CAP or SEAD support they will become extinct against a peer adversary.
It is what is - no amount of History channel buffoonery will change the facts.
While the A10 is one of my favorites to see in action, I absolutely agree. They would be highly ineffective. They'd get plucked out the sky before they get anywhere near being useful. Basically obsolete. But, the A10 has a special place in my heart after some of the E36 M3uations I've been in.
The F35 on the otherhand is equipped with a an amazing radar package and air-to-ground smart munitions. I doubt we'll be retrofitting any of that to the A10. Though certain some F15's will be getting (if they haven't already) some of the goodness soon.
FatMongo said:Aside from seeing the 0351s/0352s carry them, I dont have much familiarity with the Javelin, but I do recall it does have a significant backblast area - making it not ideal for urban deployment - or at least from firing positions within urban structures.
As noted, the Javelin should not have any back blast. It has an initial launcher that throws the missile out, then the rocket fires. Also completely fire and forget, so once it's launched, the user can run away. In a tight area, that initial launch might be an issue. You do need to indicate the target though (thermal). Use of thermal smoke is probably a potential counter measure (if the Russians thought of that).
(no direct experiance, just what I read)
FatMongo said:Aside from seeing the 0351s/0352s carry them, I dont have much familiarity with the Javelin, but I do recall it does have a significant backblast area - making it not ideal for urban deployment - or at least from firing positions within urban structures.
From what I remember the soft launch reduces back-blast area and is actually ideal for urban usage.
aircooled said:FatMongo said:Aside from seeing the 0351s/0352s carry them, I dont have much familiarity with the Javelin, but I do recall it does have a significant backblast area - making it not ideal for urban deployment - or at least from firing positions within urban structures.
As noted, the Javelin should not have any back blast. It has an initial launcher that throws the missile out, then the rocket fires. Also completely fire and forget, so once it's launched, the user can run away. In a tight area, that initial launch might be an issue. You do need to indicate the target though (thermal). Use of thermal smoke is probably a potential counter measure (if the Russians thought of that).
(no direct experiance, just what I read)
Good info.
Thanks for the correction.
aircooled said:FatMongo said:Aside from seeing the 0351s/0352s carry them, I dont have much familiarity with the Javelin, but I do recall it does have a significant backblast area - making it not ideal for urban deployment - or at least from firing positions within urban structures.
As noted, the Javelin should not have any back blast. It has an initial launcher that throws the missile out, then the rocket fires. Also completely fire and forget, so once it's launched, the user can run away. In a tight area, that initial launch might be an issue. You do need to indicate the target though (thermal). Use of thermal smoke is probably a potential counter measure (if the Russians thought of that).
(no direct experiance, just what I read)
I seem to remember an Army friend telling me that the thermal sights could sometimes be touchy on them. Might make it a good time of year and location to be using them
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