History in the Making: Russian Invasion

Some surprising exchanges during Zelensky's visit today at the Oval Office.

I'm interested to hear aircooled's and 02's take on the events.

"Surprising" is one word for it. 

Yeah, that will be all over the news.  (them essentially talking aggressively to each other)

I think it points the the current administration's general goal of simply "stopping the war", and the are clearly getting frustrated that both Ukraine, and Russia (not sure if they have realized the Russia part yet, but it's pretty obvious), really don't want to stop the war, as it currently is!  Of course the reason for that (on both sides) is, the simple solution of "stopping" it, ignores some far more complex issues that need to be address (securities etc.)

It is, I think, and interesting view of what likely happens, behind closed doors, in such meetings, but no one ever sees it.  Now, the fact that everyone sees it?  Is that a good thing?

This will very much, and is already showing, motivates Europe to give more support.   Is that the "secret" goal here?  I kind of doubt it (see "just stop it" above), but it certainly not a bad thing in general.

The minerals deal, was not signed, as you can imagine.

The one thing to look out for is that the current admin can run hot and cold (and likes to be very performative / shocking), so what seems like a complete s-show, may not result in the entirely negative attitude you might expect from such an exchange.

This kind of sums it up (the Ukrainian ambassador to the US, crying during the exchange):

Either Zelensky doesn't listen to his briefers, or his briefers didn't do their jobs effectively. As Macron and Starmer recently demonstrated, when you're in front of cameras with Trump, you play nice and, at worst, say nothing of substance. Challenging Trump and Vance on definitions was never going to end well, and trying to play cards everyone knows you're not holding is a losing gambit.

That said, I don't think publicly berating Zelensky helps Trump's position vis a vis Putin at all. He was trying to play one against the other (hence the competing natural resources offers); now, at least until Zelensky makes nice, Putin can negotiate with much more freedom, knowing that Ukraine is on the outs with Trump. Of course, Putin could try to seize the opportunity and offer Trump a better deal than he was expecting, in hopes that the US will jump on it, selling out China's rare earths leverage with the US in exchange for a big boost in Ukraine.

Putin and Xi need each other right now, the same way Hitler and Stalin needed each other in the 1930s - they'll be great friends until one of them decided it's time to stab the other in the back. I don't know that this would be a big enough opportunity for Putin to pull out his dagger, but he's probably thinking about sharpening it up.

In thinking about it.   I think the key word here is:  Frustration.

Everyone involved here is very frustrated (for there own, generally good reasons), and it's very much showing!

I can't think of anything nice to say.

Zelenskyy has made an interesting statement about the meeting.  Obviously "just and lasting" are the key words here.

Thank you, America, thank you for your support, thank you for this visit (inviting). Thank you to the President, the Congress, and the American people. Ukraine needs a just and lasting peace, and we are working to achieve that.

Zelensky: "Have you ever been to Ukraine?"

Vance: "I have watched and seen the stories."

Driven5 said:

Zelensky: "Have you ever been to Ukraine?"

Vance: "I have watched and seen the stories."

My tongue is going to need stitches if I keep biting it this way.

I wrote something.

I deleted it.