Hmm, did I just screw that up.

So, quick background. I started my IT career in the military at a time when IT was mainframes so when desktops and networks started appearing you got the job if you knew something about it rather than being trained for it (I was a jet mech before I was "drafted") Did that for 12 years and left the service as the NCOIC of Logistics Networking, Operations and Support, so a Director of IT position in the outside world.

Having no degree and low ambition I took a job as a service desk manager when I got out of the military and I enjoyed it. I hated the software we were using so I trained in it and learned to change it to better suit what my team was doing. Well that has led to 12 years of software development and process engineering for multiple companies.

I like my company, and when I get to do what I was hired for I love my job, but I do very little software development anymore and some days it feels like Im just finding ways to keep busy. When I was hired it was very clearly stated to me that I would never advance above my position without a degree which I dont have and I'm ok with that, I do well for a HS edumacated kid.

Last month a co-worker was let go suddenly, he managed a team of 16 which included the service desk. We both reported to the same boss. In a conversation with the boss today I asked what the plans were to fill the office, not fishing, just genuinely curious because he has taken on the load and I can see he's drowning in it. He mentioned they decided to split the role up as they learned quickly how dangerous it is to have such a large team under one person. Then out of the blue he asks if I'd have interest in the position managing the service desk. Truth is I would, I'm kind of burnt out on what I do and its a great team that I'd love the opportunity to lead and mentor. But I was so taken aback by the question and suddenly felt like I was fishing for the opportunity by asking about it that I just kinda muttered "whatever I can do to help" Had a few more coherent words after that but overall I think I left him feeling I could take it or leave it. But I also just feel odd jumping on it, the co-worker that was let go was a friend to us both and it feels bit like jumping in his grave.

I need to say something to the boss to let him know I'm indeed interested if the opportunity is there, just not sure how to approach it now.

Be direct and tell him that you'd be very interested in the position if its available. Don't drag your feet. Do it first thing in the morning.

Woody wrote: Be direct and tell him that you'd be very interested in the position if its available. Don't drag your feet. Do it first thing in the morning.

Good point, and I have to drop by his office in the AM to give him some equipment I've been trialing that he wants to play with so I have a good excuse to pop in.

Honestly it may get no further than him, his boss may stick with the no degree no promotion rule and I'll be ok with it. I guess that's my real concern I don't want to put him on the spot to have to feel bad turning me down if that's the case. He's a good guy and under a crapload of pressure right now.

It's business. Be assertive.

" You really caught me off guard yesterday. Yes. I'd really like the opportunity to help lead this team. What do you think the chances are of us convincing the higher-ups that I can do the job without a college degree?" Or something along those lines.

Shows you want the job, explains your reaction, lets him know there might be a problem he may have been unaware of, and gets him on your side for the presentation to upper management.

streetwiseguy beat me to it ... that's exactly how I'd go about it

I'm also with streetwiseguy. Worst that would happen is the higher ups saying no.

+1 to both of Woody's posts.

I don't know if I would bring up the lack of degree. Upper management might not even look at your resume again and I wouldn't give them a reason to. If you don't make a big deal out of it, it might not even be an issue.

Never be afraid to ask. You always start at no.

(Thanks to Big Black Kenny for that nugget.)

JThw8 wrote: Honestly it may get no further than him, his boss may stick with the no degree no promotion rule and I'll be ok with it.

Don't put too much weight on the lack of a degree - I have spent a few years attempting to study but I don't have a degree either and so far it's been only a moderate hindrance (as in, I can't get into companies who won't hire anybody who's not been to Stanford at the very least). I think I'm reasonably decent at what I do - after all, I've been doing it for 20+ years - and I've just been kicked up the ladder to a more managerial position.

Of course, in my case I had to get out of Germany to have a proper career but my experience is that in the Anglo-Saxon world, being good at what you do counts for more than an outdated piece of paper.

Go for it if you want the job. Don't sit on it, but make sure to let your boss know you took the time to think it through.

Streetwiseguy wrote: " You really caught me off guard yesterday. Yes. I'd really like the opportunity to help lead this team. What do you think the chances are of us convincing the higher-ups that I can do the job without a college degree?" Or something along those lines. Shows you want the job, explains your reaction, lets him know there might be a problem he may have been unaware of, and gets him on your side for the presentation to upper management.

Do this.

Then show him pics of the Wartburg and be like "I got this...Bizznatch!!" while thumping your chest.

why feel guilty about taking an open position that you want? i never understood that attitude when it comes to the workplace... you are there to trade your time, effort, and knowledge for dollars and if it's a position you want, don't be shy about taking it or you will watch someone else get it..

Mental wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: " You really caught me off guard yesterday. Yes. I'd really like the opportunity to help lead this team. What do you think the chances are of us convincing the higher-ups that I can do the job without a college degree?" Or something along those lines. Shows you want the job, explains your reaction, lets him know there might be a problem he may have been unaware of, and gets him on your side for the presentation to upper management.

Do this. Then show him pics of the Wartburg and be like "I got this...Bizznatch!!" while thumping your chest.

LOL, you think folks around here DON'T know about my stupid automotive exploits? He's a big fan of da 'Burg.

Popped in to drop off the equipment I promised him, discussed some application changes and straight up told him that I hope I didn't seem disinterested yesterday, he just caught me off guard and I'd really welcome the opportunity if it were available. He seemed pleased and said we would definitely discuss it more as they developed their plans for that group. Good enough.

Its one of those things that I won't have hurt feelings if they go another way, there are some well qualified people I just assumed would step into the role. But it would be a nice career shift for me if the opportunity works out.

Thanks for talking me through it folks :)

BoxheadTim wrote: Don't put too much weight on the lack of a degree - I have spent a few years attempting to study but I don't have a degree either and so far it's been only a moderate hindrance (as in, I can't get into companies who won't hire anybody who's not been to Stanford at the very least). I think I'm reasonably decent at what I do - after all, I've been doing it for 20+ years - and I've just been kicked up the ladder to a more managerial position.

I personally put no weight on the lack of a degree. I have proven success and experience that a degree will never show. Truth be told nothing about my current job is taught in any college in the country so the degree would be rather meaningless. But this is a company that as a general rule won't even hire a level one help desk tech without a degree. So far it's never been a hindrance to me, 12 years of military service is often enough to waive the requirement and I'm so specialized in what I do that companies that want me don't have many options. I mostly brought it up because I had never really entertained the option of being offered the position because I was told from day 1 I could not advance to a management role in this company without a degree.

the "you have to have a degree" thing is sorta stupid as far as I'm concerned ... (guess from a HR point of view it makes some kinda sense)

friend of mine retired from a claims adjuster's position, whose only requirement was a 4 yr degree (in anything) ... he, with a degree in anthropology, did ok ...

my last supervisor was a lying, backstabbing, shiny happy person, with zero people skills (even though he is a part time youth pastor) who had been a manufacturing engineer on the assembly floor (with a 2 yr degree.... paramedic/EMT) .... the co. made the decision that all manufacturing engineers had to have a 4 yr degree (those with 2 yr engineering degrees were ok to stay, but would not be re-hired if they ever left)

he was a pretty good engineer (understood the products he worked with better than the design engineers for those same products) .... sure would have made my life easier if they hadn't come up with the rule change ....

wbjones wrote: the "you have to have a degree" thing is sorta stupid as far as I'm concerned ... (guess from a HR point of view it makes some kinda sense)

IMHO, it's an easy filter. So that you can prevent more people from being "interested" than you need.

But I've repeatedly seen filters like that be "violated" to promote the person they want.

So, if your boss wants you in the position (which it appears that is the case), they are probably willing to work with HR to get around the requirement. Go for it.

The easy way around that is "A 4 year degree or commensurate experience"

wbjones wrote: friend of mine retired from a claims adjuster's position, whose only requirement was a 4 yr degree (in anything) ... he, with a degree in anthropology, did ok ...

I have a friend who's and adjuster for St. Farm(and eventually ended up in their classic/specialty department, many years after he started) - with a degree in Industrial Design.

So, circling back around on this one. The position was finally officially posted to internal and external candidates. They re-wrote the position description to de-emphasize the degree requirement. 4 internal candidates (including myself) without degrees took that as a sign they were looking for us, especially since the department director specifically told one of the candidates they re-wrote it to accommodate an internal candidate.

So 4 internals applied, I don't know how many externals. 3 interviews were granted, one internal, 2 external. I was the internal. Things look positive. Final external interviewed today and the candidate review meeting was held at the end of the day. That meeting will decide who, if any, of the candidates goes to round 2 which are interviews with the department director and CIO. Round 2 is pretty much a formality so here's hoping...or not...that I hear something tomorrow. Still not entirely sure I want the position, I have a pretty cushy job right now.

Here's hoping that however it works out is for the best. Good luck.

Toyman01 wrote: Here's hoping that however it works out is for the best. Good luck.

Much thanks. I keep mulling over what my decision will be if offered. Most likely I'll take it if we can come to terms on a few things. The money wont change much its technically the same pay grade as my current position. But even a small bump will help with the wife being laid off and trying to make a go of running her own business now.

Good luck!

i have been a computer engineer for 25 years, degrees dont mean E36 M3 anymore, write that down.....go back meet with him, tell him you thought about and talked it over wiith your loved ones and together yall have decided that you can put in the extra time without them suffering........i have heard and it has worked for me you simply say "I want the job, can I have it?"

Slippery wrote: Good luck!

Made it to round 2 so all is good so far, not sure when the round 2 interviews will be held but I assume within the next week or 2

If somebody brings up the degree thing, tell them: "When I came here you were looking for some bench help but I demonstrated I could drill a curveball 450 feet into the seats, run the bases and field my position with great range. Should I be held back just because I skipped the minor leagues? I've succeeded at everything I've done here. Why should now be any different?"

If you get offered the job, take it. You provided your own reason:

You wrote: I'm kind of burnt out on what I do and its a great team that I'd love the opportunity to lead and mentor.

If you don't like what you're doing, you leave your company much higher on the food chain and can expect to field offers at that higher level.

Go for it!