Honda Smacks Down 3D Printing Community

I know more than a few people here use 3D printers for their car parts, some even as a business. But this isn't going to go well for Honda:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/honda-orders-big-takedown-of-honda-related-3d-printing-models-from-maker-communities

I get it though. You can't let people just run wild with your IP. But this seems like they brought a sledgehammer to swat flies. The files aren't going to magically disappear overnight either. Part of me wants to see SEMA jump in here to protect the small aftermarket parts makers.

Well, this is gonna backfire horribly.

I get some of the arguments in there in a normal part, but anyone that is 3D Printing knows these things are not endorsed by Honda.

I wonder if its another case of lawyers looking for something to do, like Disney is so fond of.

Interesting.  I hope that those with models taken down go through the effort of naming them in a way that won't result in a takedown.  This doesn't seem that different than what is allowed for Amazon vendors & whatnot.

How does the aftermarket parts industry do it?  Does Dorman buy licenses from OEMs to make door handles and clips?

Meanwhile at Ford: https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/owner-resources/vehicle-documents/how-do-i-use-3d-printing-to-customize-my-ford-maverick-pickup/

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

Exactly. Ford went through this a while ago with the Mustang, and Mazda shut down all the parts that were sold with the old Miata script logo over 20 years ago. Gotta protect that IP. This is probably the most important part of the article:

Some files that were taken down were named something along the lines of "Honda Civic Cup Holder," whereas others were titled similar to the likeness of "Cup Holder for Honda Civic." The order of that wording matters...

Prusa was a bit heavy-handed here, but they have to protect their own business so it's a "better safe than sorry" situation. Take 'em all down, then start putting them back up after they've been checked. Heck, I've had a print shop refuse to print a poster of one of our own cars unless we could get permission from Mazda. Mazda would not give permission (ie, licensing) but they did say they wouldn't come after us. Had an interesting discussion with one of their lawyers about why the Miata name was being depreciated, and why it could not be used on anything that was not specifically a car due to an agreement with the Miyata bike company.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Too bad. I'm not sure how anything accossiated with Flyin' Miata would diminish the Miata names in any way. But I'm a car guy,  ot a lawyer.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

No one - and I mean no one - wants to hear this.

It's much easier to get butthurt and self-righteous at Metallica / Disney / Honda / insert-greedy-capitalist-entity-here than it is to actually understand the nuances of the situation.

Appleseed said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Too bad. I'm not sure how anything accossiated with Flyin' Miata would diminish the Miata names in any way. But I'm a car guy,  ot a lawyer.

Yeah, they didn't really have a problem with it. But there's a difference between giving permission and not taking action in this sort of case. 

We got that poster printed, I don't really remember how. Might have been with a different printer :) This was about the time that Ford was getting very aggressive about the Mustang trademark so everyone was twitchy.

Trademarks must be defended, everything else is optional.

The logo scripts are trademarked, door clips and other parts are not.
It's quite possible that the companies that have licensed the designs for replacement parts have asked Honda to do this.  If they don't crack down on unlicensed copies then why should others pay for a license?

Duke said:

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

No one - and I mean no one - wants to hear this.

It's much easier to get butthurt and self-righteous at Metallica / Disney / Honda / insert-greedy-capitalist-entity-here than it is to actually understand the nuances of the situation.

 

The irony of this post is that with most of these, its usually the lawyers that don't take the time to establish nuance.  They just jump on it and rely on whether there is public outcry or not to undo the damage. Disney lawyers suing a grieving father for Disney characters on his child's headstone, for example.

The nuance in this is that anyone that is getting a virtual part from a website and then printing it themselves or paying someone to print it very very definitely knows whether the file is from Honda or not.  There is no actual damage possible except in the mind of the very very VERY stupid, and guess what, they can't rub enough braincells together to run a 3D printer.

I repeat:

Duke said:

It's much easier to get butthurt and self-righteous at Metallica / Disney / Honda / insert-greedy-capitalist-entity-here than it is to actually understand the nuances of the situation.

And I'll repeat Keith's comment:

This is probably the most important part of the article:

Some files that were taken down were named something along the lines of "Honda Civic Cup Holder," whereas others were titled similar to the likeness of "Cup Holder for Honda Civic." The order of that wording matters...

Duke said:

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

No one - and I mean no one - wants to hear this.

It's much easier to get butthurt and self-righteous at Metallica / Disney / Honda / insert-greedy-capitalist-entity-here than it is to actually understand the nuances of the situation.

I get then point. The problem is it's typical honda bad optics, publicly cracking down on something popular at a time when other manufacturer(s) are embracing it.

Duke said:

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

No one - and I mean no one - wants to hear this.

It's much easier to get butthurt and self-righteous at Metallica / Disney / Honda / insert-greedy-capitalist-entity-here than it is to actually understand the nuances of the situation.

 

I think we all get it but I know that I struggle to really find a care for poor widdle down trodden Honda. Especially when we've got Amazon blatantly ripping off whatever they want in a Western rendition of the Chinese industrial economy. I wonder who would sue who if Amazon started selling an Amazon Original Hando Great Journey minivan. Either way, no tears shed on my end. 

Error404 said:

I think we all get it but I know that I struggle to really find a care for poor widdle down trodden Honda.

Most people won't care.  I get that too.

Doesn't change the reality of the situation.

While it's true that trademarks must be defended, there are a million ways to do it that don't involve wholesale stomping on toes. Lawyers gonna lawyer, though, and that usually involves a lack of nuance or care for other's efforts.

Duke said:

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you don't try and protect your IP, then it's considered fair game. Unfortunately, this is necessary to ensure that Honda retains rights to what they want. Even if no one listens, it prevents larger bad actors from having a leg to stand on.

No one - and I mean no one - wants to hear this.

It's much easier to get butthurt and self-righteous at Metallica / Disney / Honda / insert-greedy-capitalist-entity-here than it is to actually understand the nuances of the situation.

Are you referring to the nuances that Honda is self-righteously ignoring, by also going after people and items not engaged in legitimate IP infringement? The reality of the situation I'm seeing is that over-reaching their defense is not strictly necessary to protect their IP, it's just easier for them to take a might-makes-right approach rather than a more appropriately nuanced one.

Volkswagen did this years ago  , but the lawyers they hired were Aholes and instead of a cease and desist letter they sued everyone for silly money , 

This group of lawyers left a very bad taste in the VW community  , 

This group of lawyers were fired by VW after some of the stuff they did went public , the new group of lawyers walked softly while still doing the job of protecting the Trademark , even offering a path to license the logo.

I hope Honda etc finds a middle path , explaining what you can and cannot do , the Honda logo being the big thing and not the sunvisor clip design !

Learn to CAD, I guess.

j_tso said:

How does the aftermarket parts industry do it?  Does Dorman buy licenses from OEMs to make door handles and clips?

They either purchase companies already making a product, or engineer it themselves.  Which is why a lot of their stuff doesn't work right, or fit right.  Some of their stuff like GM truck brake line sets is amazingly good for the price.  Their ESIM units and the Volkswagen equivalent are guaranteed to be bad in the box.  Everything else is in between, with higher electronic complexity shading towards the "junk" side of the spectrum.  (Window motors are OK as long as they do not incorporate position sensors/switches, likewise window switches are OK as long as the auto-up/auto-down logic is not internal to the switch)

What is interesting is that some companies Chrysler will put bizarre bends and curlicues in things like air conditioning lines, then trademark them so that the aftermarket cannot duplicate them.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

j_tso said:

How does the aftermarket parts industry do it?  Does Dorman buy licenses from OEMs to make door handles and clips?

They either purchase companies already making a product, or engineer it themselves.

Huh.  Wonder who else does that...