How do you select a firearm?

Bobzilla wrote: You know there's at least 4 different sizes of the 1911, right?

Yeah but anything shorter than GI can be pretty finicky at best. Browning didn't really design most of his guns to be messed with, his recoil operated rifles and shotguns aside, the auto 5 and model 8 love being cut down. :cue enraged comments of everybody with a micro 1911 that's never been cleaned and eats cheap ammo and hollow points flawlessly:

curtis73 wrote: Going to a shooting range means you can rent different rifles and handguns and actually try them before you decide.

Very handy when your friends don't have the gun you are trying to buy, yes! Any time I am just shooting, though, I avoid any ranges for the fees. I know not everybody can do this.

Bobzilla wrote: You know there's at least 4 different sizes of the 1911, right?

Allow me to reiterate. . . the .45 acp round was designed as a Cav round to shoot horses out from under riders.

I do not dislike the 1911, however in a high adrenaline situation, improper or not firm enough grip results in FTF/FTE.

I had always heard that the 1911 was designed when they found out that the natives (where ever this was) that were hopped up on the local feel good juice weren't being affected (at least not quickly) by the .38 that officers were carrying at the time …

I really should do the research and find the stories I'm remembering

wbjones wrote: I had always heard that the 1911 was designed when they found out that the natives (where ever this was) that were hopped up on the local feel good juice weren't being affected (at least not quickly) by the .38 that officers were carrying at the time … I really should do the research and find the stories I'm remembering

I stand corrected via wiki:

American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War using the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, found it to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[9] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the late 19th century; the heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen.

References to horse stopping were from Jeff Cooper as a tactic learned afterwards by the Cavalry.

Bobzilla wrote: I just found an AR build kit locally. Even includes the stripped lower, 3 p-mags and rear mbus. He's asking $700 obo...

Walmart is selling the whole thing put together for less than that.

phaze1todd wrote:

wbjones wrote: I had always heard that the 1911 was designed when they found out that the natives (where ever this was) that were hopped up on the local feel good juice weren't being affected (at least not quickly) by the .38 that officers were carrying at the time … I really should do the research and find the stories I'm remembering

I stand corrected via wiki: American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War using the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, found it to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[9] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the late 19th century; the heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen. References to horse stopping were from Jeff Cooper as a tactic learned afterwards by the Cavalry.

thanks… that was what I was remembering

Id.glock.com: Not a great forum for knowledge, and it's heavy on Glock fanboyism, BUT, it has real, tangible rewards for posting. The rewards, in order:

10% off anything in the e-store

20% off anything in the e-store

30% off anything in the e-store

2 year GSSF membership

Blue label Glock pricing on 1 pistol (basically a pistol at cost)

It's been eating up all my time recently.

rebelgtp wrote: EDIT: Oh and I have thought about starting a "grassroots firearms" type of forum .....

Bumping this thread to ask...did this happen? Where can I find it?

Wife and I have been talking about getting a gun(s) for a few years now but need to do research. Her company just had a corporate event at a gun range that allowed us to get our hands on several different handguns and a couple rifles for a few hours. Neither of us really liked the .380's, She liked the 9MM handguns and I preferred the 40 caliber handguns. I found them easier to control and shoot accurately. Both the rifles were great fun too but I dont exactly remember what they were. I think one was an AR-15 type-ish gun. I dont know my guns.

In reply to failboat:

Check it out here: http://theoutdoorsman.us/MyBB/index.php

Purpose, reliability, fit, costs.

In that order.

For my personal collection is have a Colt Mark IV/Series 70 nickel, Springfield Arms Champion edition, S&W 38 special snub nose stainless and a Ruger Bearcat.

I am not a fan of Glocks stupid trigger safety. That's not a safety, it's a marketing gimmick. If you handle a firearm properly it shouldn't be needed anyway but I still don't like frivolous things like that on a weapon.

We have the Virginia Gun Trader, vaguntrader.com It has different catagories for selling anything gun related but it also has a forum area that is well attended. Check it out and see if your area has something like it.

In reply to Flight Service:

The trigger safety is merely for dropping of the firearm.....oddly enough, springfield XD's can AD by dropping them(trigger/grip safety). So, a bit more than a marketing gimmick as the glock setup works.

In reply to nickel_dime:

Thanks! I live in VA so that will come in handy. The range event we went to just had a safety crash course so to speak, we are looking to take an actual handgun course to familiarize ourselves a little better before really making a purchase.

wbjones wrote: I had always heard that the 1911 was designed when they found out that the natives (where ever this was) that were hopped up on the local feel good juice weren't being affected (at least not quickly) by the .38 that officers were carrying at the time … I really should do the research and find the stories I'm remembering

"...Filipino men, in order to kill whom a whole new class of ridiculously powerful sidearm (the Colt .45) had had to be invented."
-Neal Stephenson, 'Cryptonomicon'

In particular, Moslem Filipino men. Not so much inventing anything cartridge wise, just modernizing the Colt Single Action Army cartridge (45 Long Colt, AKA "The Colt 45") which had been around several decades by then to smokeless and putting it in a semi-auto format, which was relatively new at the time.

Not only were they high on jungle juice, but they had learned to tie tourniquets at each major joint to slow the bleeding/pain/incapacitation (is that even a word?). A larger round with more kinetic energy was needed to cause more traumatic injury that resulted in stopping the attacker.

At least that is what I had read many many many many many moons ago.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Flight Service: The trigger safety is merely for dropping of the firearm.....oddly enough, springfield XD's can AD by dropping them(trigger/grip safety). So, a bit more than a marketing gimmick as the glock setup works.

I know of two ADs with Glocks after drops, not some story but Law Enforcement officers I know. I know XDs had an issue with AD after safety release after a trigger pull, but I thought that was fixed. I have never heard of a palm safety from any manufacturer working properly and allowing an AD from dropping. Mostly because the forces have to be acting in both directions in order to "palm" and apply force on the trigger.

It's impossible for a Glock to fire without the trigger being pressed. Unless the trigger fell on something that pulled it, your LE buddies are pulling your leg.

Flight Service wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to Flight Service: The trigger safety is merely for dropping of the firearm.....oddly enough, springfield XD's can AD by dropping them(trigger/grip safety). So, a bit more than a marketing gimmick as the glock setup works.

I know of two ADs with Glocks after drops, not some story but Law Enforcement officers I know. I know XDs had an issue with AD after safety release after a trigger pull, but I thought that was fixed. I have never heard of a palm safety from any manufacturer working properly and allowing an AD from dropping. Mostly because the forces have to be acting in both directions in order to "palm" and apply force on the trigger.

In reply to rotard:

I agree. If you completely disable the slide in a glock, you'll see that its physically not possible for the striker to move forward unless the trigger is pulled. Even if it could, it wouldn't have the energy to set the primer off since it is not pulled back and put under tension until the action of pulling the trigger.

The couple cops that I know have both said about 80% of their department only know enough about guns to pass qualifying and keep current. The vast majority are not gun guys. Part of me also suspects that the 'malfunctions' were just covers for negligence and carelessness. I'm not saying that these can't ever fail of are perfect, however take the time to see the mechanics of it and it makes a lot more sense and the idea that glocks are inherently less safe than other pistols won't be further propagated.

Edit to add: a video fully explaining the multiple internal machanical safties of a glock handgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vdBmsC4VCc

In reply to Flight Service:

If you weren't there to witness these two "ad"s then it is just another story. I'm not doubting that you know the officers and know them to be trustworthy people, but stories like that when chased down often are a dozen times removed from the actual events and have been sensationalized along the way.

They may be safe but they're still ugly and uncomfortable in the hand.

In reply to failboat:

I have to ask the purpose for wanting a firearm?

For plinking and target practice I like my .22

If you're thoughts are leaning toward home defence and general utility then I strongly recommend a small 20 ga shotgun.
A. Pistols are hard to aim (harder in the dark and under a stressful situation)

and B. The name of the game is transmitting kinetic energy from your tool to a target, Shotguns with a modest size shot load have FAR more energy than any pistol around and tend to dump all of their energy quite quickly this either incapacitates an intruder RIGHT NOW or in the event of a missed shot doesn't over-penetrate the walls of your home endagering someone in the next room (or house for those lunatics that use rifles for home defense).

finally C. Shotguns have a psychological intimidation factor working for them, bad guys want NOTHING to do with someone who just racked the slide (even if you only loaded bird shot).

90% intended use would recreational shooting/target practice I would say. I dont hunt. Everyone around here (aka friends with guns) says get your CC because its easy to obtain, but I still don't really plan on carrying a gun around with me.

You must be reading my mind we were sort of thinking a 9mm handgun, and a .22 rifle to play with. I feel like our back yard would be very conducive to some weekend target practice (thats another discussion I suppose)

In reply to KyAllroad:

In theory yes. BUT, a major disadvantage in a shotgun is manuevering in tight spaces (narrow doors/hallways, small rooms etc). The next answer is a pistol grip on the shotgun. But that takes the accuracy out of it. (I've NEVER been able to hit hte broad side of a barn with a PG shotgun)

The reality is, you're more likey to practice/use the handgun much more often than the shotgun. It's much easier on the body to practice with a large caliber, slow moving handgun. Which means muscle memory is more likely to kick in and you be more accurate than grabbing the one thing in the house that you know kicks like a mule and you've not used many times.

It's a personal choice. I will never tell someone else what they should or should not use for self defense.