How in the hell do people succeed?... Am I just terrible at Life?

First, few things are more expensive than being poor....just a slight improvement in your circumstances will profoundly improve your situation.

Second, it sounds like you didn't get dealt a very strong hand in life which actually gives you a much better prognosis than those that have berked up after being handed four aces.

Third, some change needs to be made to get you off of your current trajectory. 

In 1984, at the age of 20, I broke through the 100K mark (309K in today's money) by making every penny I could, and saving every penny I could, and aggressively investing what was left.

Ten years later, after reconciling a failed marriage, I was worth exactly zero (what few assets I had left just covered the debts my X left me with).

The day she left, I built and began executing on what I called the "Rule of Three's" plan...

3K gets you a nice emergency fund.

30K gets you a nice car.

300K gets you a nice house (I know, I know, but it was 1994)

3M gets you a nice retirement portfolio.

I turned 60 last June...I went from completely broke to totally set in thirty years.

Looking back, my observation is that just a slight difference will have a profound effect over time.

Riddle me this...

Q:  Why are divorces so expensive?

A:  Because they're worth it.

You don't have to do anything profound or brilliant, just do something to tip the scales in your favor and time will do its magic my friend.

Love ya man!

More words later. I just wanted to get this off quickly!

The_Jed said:

 I'd say roughly 100% of you guys are more successful than me. I would really like to know just how in the berkeley any of you made it to where you are today.

1. I started off in better socioeconomic status with family that was able to pay for education, take care of financial emergencies, and provide connections.

2. I chose not to have kids.

3. Grandparents gave me enough inheritance where, although I am certainly not *wealthy*, was sufficient to put a down payment on a house, buy a reliable lightly used car with cash, and establish a solid emergency fund.

As pointed out by RX Reven, being poor is expensive. Have an extra $20k in cash sitting around means that large expenses can just be paid for rather than having to pay interest on credit cards or loans (aside from my mortgage).

It has been dubbed the "Boots Theory" as spelled out by Terry Pratchett in one of the Discworld novels:

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

In reply to The_Jed :

For your kids, very much look into need based scholarships.  They are out there.  I'm not talking grants, or loans, or anything like that- I'm talking real scholarships.  Second, talk to them on what they really want to do- if that can be satisfied with a two year trade school, then do that (and some states have started making sure that public education goes two years beyond HS).  

A trick you also may want to look into is a two year community college and then transfer to a 4 year degree.  I know that is possible- a local CC is advertising someone who started there, finished at a big school, and now is a rocket scientist in Flordia.  I've been encouraging our university to help kids get in by helping through the state's CC system.  It saves universities a lot of money, since they only do 2-3 years of scholarship as opposed to 4-5.  And it helps feed the university students when the student base is slowly declining in numbers.

There are smaller schools in smaller towns where you can walk from off campus housing to school.  And most of them are capable of sending their graduates to all of the best schools in the US without a cent from you (again, scholarships- just massive ones that may come with work requirements like being a teaching assistant or a research assistant).  We both graduated from state universities, and went to grad school and earned money while at the big school in my city.

Sorry that the divorce really undid your situation.  That sucks bad. 

Other than that, all I can really offer is encouragement.  Which isn't a whole lot, I know..... 

I'm not sure you want to hear it, but I'll offer it anyway.

Borrowing money to buy things you can't afford will never work out. Sometimes you have to cut the "luxuries" completely out for a while to get ahead. No cable, no streaming services, no car payments, stop eating out, making unnecessary trips. Cigs/Booze gone. A phone, house, food are it. IT sucks. Buy beaters you can pay cash for and bust your ass keeping them on the road as cheaply as possible for as long as possible. Don't use your credit cards. 

It ain't easy. IT's the hardest berkeleying thing you may ever do in life. Because when you have a few dollars you want to spend it. You can't. 

I grew up on the poor side a lot of my life. I worked full time while trying to pay for college before realizing that was not the path for me. I've worked so many different jobs over the years, some were absolute crap. I hit the jackpot when I met my wife, who has a good head on her shoulders about finances. She helped me get my credit score from the 400's to something respectable. She also taught me the "want" vs "need" conversation I should have anytime I buy things. 

I hope some of this helps. 

I'll be honest.  I was just kinda lucky.

I knew what I wanted to do with my life from an early age (engineer).  My parents had just enough money to support me going to a state school (wvu).  After graduating, I got a job as a maintenance engineer and have slowly risen up the pay scale.

What I can say is that it is okay to ask for help.

My advice would be to find a job that has good medical insurance and isn't so rough on your body (easy to say...).

You seem to communicate clearly and know how to use the internet.  Have you thought of moving into a different type position?  A sales position might offer a car for you or at least money towards a vehicle.

One thing I will say (just in case there are younger people reading this that are in the same boat)...  Decisions we make in our 20s have an inordinate impact on us 20 to 40 years later.  Having some savings or retirement savings put away in your 20s makes a huge difference that is almost impossible to make up as you get older.

Not that the above advice helps you now, but I wish somebody would have explained that to me because I would be much better off now.

The truth is you can do absolutely everything right, follow every rule, work harder then anyone else and still fail. 
 

That is not a personal failing. That's life. Money and connections just let you fail upward or have a softer landing. 
 

To be clear I am amazed that I am even alive and still working and healthy. From the outside it looks like everything just went me way. In the end it was tons of overtime and work but the straight answer is I got LUCKLY not sure why but I was. 

Can I recommend another forum to you?  Go look up Mr. Money Mustache, read a few posts (or a lot of posts!).  Then join the forum on his website.

Post your situation and ask for some actionable advice.  Some tough love is probably in order; at this point you cannot coast along and save a dollar here and fifty cents there.  If you want out of the hole, thinking and saving out of the box is necessary. 

If you're here on the GRM forum, are you car handy?  Buy a cheap Prius as a couple of people have detailed on here and drive it into the ground.  Stop eating out. 

Examine the big ticket items first: housing, transportation, food.  Can you improve on your expenses in these areas, even if it means some initial discomfort? 

FWIW, I went from broke with a teenage, pregnant wife living in a trailer on a farm, through school,  bankruptcy, and a career so I've walked in those shoes at least somewhat.  You can make positive changes at any age!

I don't have the time for a detailed response, but have to say that I really respect you for going public like this. I've felt like making a similar post before. 

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles.  I'm glad that this is a safe space to share those struggles.  I've shared a few struggles here and have met some really really great people here.   It truly is a remarkable place.

As others have said, I've been lucky and have taken advantage of the opportunities presented to me whenever possible.  I come from a firmly middle class background, got help with college education costs but mainly covered it myself by working while taking classes.  Life challenges are hitting me a bit harder these last few years-marriage, aging parents, kids- but I'm powering through because that's what I have to do.  Thankfully none of those life challenges have been debilitating thus far.  

Last night at a Bible study our leader mentioned life can be a lot like the Whack a Mole game.  Problem pops up and you hit it and it goes away and then another one somewhere else.....

A lot of people have covered the philosophical. Being poor IS expensive, and I was also going to reference the Sam Vimes Boots Theory of Economics!   I've been there too.  When I finished my associates degree, I had 5k in credit card debt and couldn't afford the 2nd/last payment on that semester, and didn't get my degree "finished" until about 3 months after I got my first job out of school.   That was with working all through school, often 40+ hours.   So I get it. 

2nd - Big props for putting it out there on the forum.  I echo what everyone above has said, I'm glad this is a place where people can do that, and I'm proud of you for doing it!  I love this GRM family!

3rd - You can't spend your way out (as I know that you know!).  I have a great budget spreadsheet I'm happy to share and reference as much as I can called "Within Your Means."  It's how my wife and I got our financial life on track.

4th - Job hopping is the only effective way to raise your salary, until you find a good company that you can actually grow with.   You don't know what a good salary is, if you don't have a good financial picture (see point 3).  Yes to all of the above about cutting out unnessary (and even some neccessary in the short term!) expenses to get your head above water.

E) Your van probably has a cracked cylinder head or two.   It's the same thing that did in the Tunavan I bought from Tuna on here.   Junkyards are littered with that generation in near perfect shape because of it.   There was a massive recall, you may still be eligable?  It's worth looking into!

F) Little things add up more than expected, but only in the long run.  Silly stuff.  Only buy based on the "per pound" price at the grocery store, but buying crap that's cheap will be way more expensive for your health in the long run.   https://www.reddit.com/r/EatCheapAndHealthy/ and /r/budgetfood are good sources for high quality, cheaper meals.   Meal prep to avoid eating out, stuff like that.   You're already on this forum, so you appreciate buying one quality item makes more sense than buying three cheap ones.   Buying nothing is even better though!  Your library may have a "tool library" that loans tools if it's needed for one project!

VII) If it's time to jump ship on the job front, I know that every single Machine Tool company that I know if is DESPARATE for service techs, as well as all of the larger factories around here.  I'm not sure where you're at, but I'm happy to send you some names of people to look into if you need a job you can grow into.  Sounds like you already have the requisite skills?

Good luck, it's tough out there, but I know you're tougher!

To directly answer the question:   Grinding damn near all day every day, and getting lucky.   You can put your finger on the scales of luck if you do it consistently every day!

I'm 52. I raised 3 kids on 1 income. I was born into a dysfunctional family but had both parents. My dad was a hard worker and made a modest living.  I'm doing ok, but not wealthy by any means. Lots of folks here spend as much on a toy (track car) as I make in a year. 

Here's where I got to where I am now. I didn't go to college. It's a racket for most folks. There are some careers where a degree is, maybe not needed, but highly desirable, engineer, doctor, lawyer, a few others for sure. I went to vocational school that was offered as part of my high school. Other than that I've always worked hard. If you're always there, always on time, and a hard worker, people will see YOU out for opportunities. 

Throughout my career I've always tried to be learning something new. I've leveraged those somethings into jobs that paid more than the one I'm in. 

The other BIG thing is that I have lived within my means. Being a (former) auto tech allowed me to drive cars that I could pay cash for because I could afford the maintenance and repairs. Debt will kill you. The debt culture that exists in this country is a trap, stay out of it.

The_Jed said:

   I'd say roughly 100% of you guys are more successful than me. I would really like to know just how in the berkeley any of you made it to where you are today. 

Just fix your money issues. I graduated college with a philosophy degree, but most of my wealth came from 3 things:

1. I married my best friend-she hated being poor as much as I did.

2. In 2011 I got into sales and 3x'ed my income.

3. We put more than 50% of our earnings into the market for the next 8 years.

Long term advice:

If I was in your position I would get into sales, get really good at it and start socking money away. Don't ever, ever tell yourself that you can't make it, because you'll start believing that.

Short term advice for this week:

Go watch a movie called "The Pursuit of Happyness" and never forget that you can do this.

Buy a book called "Rich Dad Poor Dad" and read it. Everything else the author wrote is a BS scam, but the book will teach you a lot about how wealthy people think. If you don't want to spend the money DM me and I'll buy it for you.

Kendall Frederick said:

If you're here on the GRM forum, are you car handy?  Buy a cheap Prius as a couple of people have detailed on here and drive it into the ground.   

If you are car handy, you could also buy a cheap broken Prius, have Indy and John tell you how to fix it and then flip it for a profit. I'd be willing to front you the money to buy it and the necessary parts. Where are you located?

No. You are not terrible at life.  But sometimes life kicks you in the nuts.
 

 You've successfully made it through military service, have a family that loves you, have a decent paying job, an exceptionally low priced mortgage, and a car that works (kinda).  You've also survived the trauma of a partnership that didn't turn out the way you expected and are healing and rebuilding.

There's a lot of success in there, and some very good decisions.  Now you need to KEEP making good decisions. 

Your worst crisis is likely that you keep replaying the negative tapes in your head. Stop. Make the effort to focus on those positive things you HAVE accomplished, you ARE accomplishing, and you WILL accomplish. Put one foot in front of the other.  Do it again.  Again.

Regarding college... that may not be something you can offer your kids. There are many opportunities for financing an education other than parent's money.  That's not a failure. It's just honest. Teach your kids how to think successfully, and they will. 
 

How did I do it?  Mostly the exact same way you did. Trial and error with lots of errors. 

First, let me say that you don't necessarily suck at life. Sometimes life sucks at you.

Reading your short bio, it sounds like you started out with 2 strikes against you.  Since then you had some bad luck (injuries, health issues) and some decisions made in good faith (marriage, kids) didn't work out as expected.

I'm not reading anything there that shows much stereotypical "bad decisions poster child" behavior. I'm seeing a guy doing his best to play a short hand when the rest of the deck hasn't been going his way either.

The Mr Money Moustache suggestion is a great one. There will be articles and forum members there who can give you solid, realistic advice to help you get your feet on solid ground.

I don't know where you're located, but that's a factor, of course.  But I would look at the county,  state, and federal level to see what help is available. There is a huge range of programs from straightforward economic assistance to job finding help to vocational re-training.  Without getting political, hardworking people in your situation are what these programs are for, and nobody has a problem with that kind of societal safety net.

I have to go right now and I don't have specific advice to give, just encouragement.  You can overcome these things and we're here to support and help if we can.

In reply to The_Jed :

Now said vehicle ('17 Caravan) has started issuing an expensive-sounding rattle during cold starts and the transmission is slipping on the 4-5 and 5-6 upshifts.

 Flexplate flywheel?  Popular problem of the 3.6L Minivan.

Jump to the 1:57 mark where he actually starts the car.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cZ_e2zcayg&ab_channel=OnlineMechanicTips

The repair (video) is not particularly expensive for parts but it is deep in labor.  Part sample:  $94 via Amazon

Busted flywheel starts like this:
  

Ends like this: 

Those above are just two videos I found quickly.  There are many videos out there on the topic...and you should watch many.

An online posting said that the job books-out at 5.9 hours.  $100 per = $590 plus, plus.  Id guess min $750.  $150 per = $885 plus, plus or likely $1k.   So, $750-$1k if done at a shop.  

One more thing to add- speaking of government, see if you can find an agency to work for.  Many of them need maintenance skills.  Or other trade skills.  

Government normally has very robust benefits- healthcare, PTO, pension, and other benefits that make it worth while to work for.  Pay is never the highest of industry, but the benefits generally make up for it.  (I didn't work for the government, but my wife did.  She was quite happy working there).  For normal retirement age, you have roughly 20 years to work and build something.  You have enough time to do that.

Life is a bit of a E36 M3 sandwich for everyone, at times.  You seem to have gotten the bite with the most filling, but trust me, ain't nobody immune to the vagaries of life.  Do the best you can, associate with cheerful people, and look for the roses in the mountains of E36 M3.

In reply to The_Jed :

What are the ongoing attorney fees?  A third of your monthly budget is a big chunk. When will that be complete?
 

What's left in the medical bills?

Honestly, a lot of it is persistence and a lot of it is luck. It helps to be a straight white male but that's not enough to solve everything.

You're doing the right things but have rough circumstances. Do you think it would be feasible to get a grant for a vo-tech school? Tradies are always in need and skilled tradies can make serious money. 

Nothing you wrote makes it sound as if you're habitually making poor decisions, so you may already have the proper habits and mindset in place to dig your way out. Digging sucks, but it's also pretty straightforward. Just takes time and effort.

Assuming you're not overspending, I think the highest priority is probably increasing income. If that can happen with a promotion, or new job then great. If some sort of side gig can fit in then that's great too. If you don't have 2 pennies to rub together, problems compound quickly. Got to get enough income to save up an E Fund and then go from there.

I'll also ask about your social network. A lot of times knowing the right person can open a door at the right time. You don't have to schmooze everybody in the world, but making some connections can only help when it comes to help with projects, finding another job, etc. Being a recently divorced, single dad can make it really hard to socialize but I'd talk to people at the gym, or bank, or work, etc to try and build up your network. Not with the goal of using these connections for personal gain (because people can sniff that out), but genuinely trying to be friendly and social.

In reply to The_Jed :

Would your children be able to stay with Grandma or someone like that while you- Drove a truck, worked on a river boat, worked on an oil rig, worked on an offshore supply vessel? Great ways to pile up cash with no need for a car or for that matter, a house.

The_Jed said:

I have a $30 flip phone that costs $30 per month. The kids' phones are $100 per month (old phones). I only use free streaming services; Tubi, Youtube, etc., no cable. I don't eat out or smoke or drink. I have a gym membership- $35/month. I don't have any credit cards. I've been living like this for a very long time and plan to continue doing so. My internet (at the moment) is $35 per month. Car insurance is just under $300 per month (will be investigating that). Utilities are usually just under $200/mo. Water is around $70/mo. The med bills have been paid down to 700-ish. The attorney is well into four digits. I bring home about $3,400 per month. I should be slowly rising up but stuff keeps breaking. Lately I've just been wondering if it's like this for everyone, is it really supposed to be this difficult?


I'm constantly shooting off apps for public sector jobs; I had an online interview a few days ago. Everything from the state, county, or city that I'm qualified for gets an app. Most fed jobs I've found require a degree. I've applied for several internal positions where I work but, I can't get an interview.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things, but perhaps it's time to do those right thing somewhere else?   Where are you located at?

From my quick math, I see $1090 (including the 400 mortgage and 430 car payment mentioned up thread) - xxxx attorney fees, which is leaving less than $90 per month to feed, clothe, basics 3 people in today's food & clothing market, that's damned tough.  That just doesn't seem possible to me.  

3400*12 is $40,800, or ~$19.61/hr. 

I haven't made $40k a year since 2005 or 6.  That's damned tough.     I mean, all the saving & scrimping in the world won't help in the monthly income is less than monthly expenditures, and it sounds like you've already been living in survival mode for years.

Again, I don't know where in the US you're located, so I just searched locally on Indeed.com for "Machine Maintenance" (since that sounds like what you're doing at the steel mill?).  It looks like industrial maintenance techs up here in North East CT are starting at $30/hr which is $62,000/yr.  Salaries listed at a quick search show upwards of $40 ($83,000).

Assuming the same math at $30/hr, now, you should have $5,200/mo.  That gives you an extra $1800/mo.   You put $580 into a RothIRA to max it out ($7000/yr), that'll leave you $1220 to live, have a bit of fun and agressively pay off your debts.  Dump the rest into an index fund.  If you start playing the Roth game now, you'll end up at 65 having invested $155,000, but having made $133,000 by the time you reach 65 (according to this calculator).   Not a ton, but a good start on retirement at least!