How in the hell do people succeed?... Am I just terrible at Life?

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

I think you nailed what I would deem to be the attributes of a successful person: Enough to comfortably retire in 20 years, A house that fits the family, a reliably vehicle that's not indicating some very expensive failures are on the horizon after less than two months of ownership (no extended warranty, it's on me) and, to be financially robust enough to help my kids pay for college. 


Some people say college is not necessary but, I wholeheartedly disagree. I know what I've gone through in my working life and I want none of that for my kids. 

Cool. Now that you've written down your goals.  Come up with a plan to achieve.  Slowly.  Patiently. Methodically 

The_Jed said:

Some people say college is not necessary but, I wholeheartedly disagree. I know what I've gone through in my working life and I want none of that for my kids. 

I think this depends a lot on the individual, some do well with it, some are indifferent, some would be better off without it.  But I agree with the goal of being prepared for it.

In reply to The_Jed :

To clarify...

I didn't mean to say college is unnecessary.  That's a personal decision. 
 

I meant to say that you don't need to be the one to PAY for it.

There are a LOT of ways that students can pay for their own college education.  Grants, scholarships, student loans, etc, etc.  Students have many more resources than they realize- parents are not obligated to be their bank (that's the easy route, but not in any way the only route).

I have 5 kids- all of them went to college.  Combined expense was probably about $300K.  I paid very little of that- perhaps $10K total combined.

A student who can keep their grades up and becomes active on the campus increases greatly their odds of scholarships, etc.

Is there someone you trust enough and is not judgemental that you would feel comfortable discussing this with? Maybe a brief weekly meeting to discuss where you are on the path to financial stability and to offer you support.

You sound a bit depressed (I'm not a medical professional, just experienced with depression). Find someone to talk with that will provide a distraction to your circumstances. This could be the same person as above.

Now you can down vote this next part, but a contribution to a church can really help.  If you are a Bible believing person you are instructed to do so. A lot do and a lot don't.  Your choice. It works for me. 

Set aside a portion (10%) to pay yourself first in a separate account or under your mattress. 

Use the dollar bill savings plan. It works. 

Best of luck with this. It won't be easy, but it will be worth it. 

IMHO, Charity needs to start at home.  Once you get the means to make sure that you are safe and healthy, then it can extend out.  It shouldn't be a choice between charity and a safe, solid house; your kids education; means to get around that is safe and solid.  

And I kind of doubt that most churches will pressure you into giving them money when you need spiritual fulfillment but barely have the means to cover your own bills.  Are churches pay for pray these days?

In reply to alfadriver :

Charity does begin at home, hence my other comments. Do or don't. Up to the OP to decide. 

I think it's worth remembering that not everyone that shares information about themselves here is going to go into every challenge and set back for the world to know about in full detail.  I am typing this effectively one handed due to a garage accident last Friday involving my left thumb, a table saw, and a trip to the ER.  I wouldn't have shared this at all except that I think it's good to know that not everyone shares the screw ups.  And I'll be fine, the thumb will live, it's just under wraps post surgery for the time being.

One thing that has helped me is 'flying solo' which means I don't have an ex or kids and everything has been easier to control.  But it gets lonely.  It sounds like you're working hard on being a good dad and that's awesome stuff.    Maybe, and if this isn't accurate you can ignore this bit, but it sounds like you are trying to do as much as you can on your own.  Some help from your networks, like what John suggested with a GRM Borg van rebuild thrash, is the kind of thing I would have a terrible thing asking people to do for me.  And it seems like it would help you a ton right now.  You'll pay it back when you can.

I honestly find this group really impressive to the point of being intimidating at times.  Try to enjoy the help and laughs and don't let the comparisons get to you.

In reply to The_Jed :

No worries man, I'm sending good vibes your way.

If you're good at wrenching on stuff, can you do it from your home? Maybe a garage or carport?

I never thought people would bother to have someone else fix their riding mowers, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, etc. Now I'm charging $100/hr to do it for people who can't be bothered or can't do it themselves. 

Lawn and garden stuff doesn't need much for tools.

What about moving to NC and working for Toyman?

Though I can assume kids complicate that situation.

RE: Rich Dad Poor Dad, I'll sum up the only useful advice in the book right here:  Make your money work for you.  Avoid reading the book unless you want a good laugh at how completely out of touch with reality some scammy rich dude can be (and even then there are plenty of modern examples).

That said, the advice is not really applicable in this situation.  Advice on how to properly save or invest does someone who does not have the excess income to save or invest no good :(

The only advice I can offer is: 

1) Accept the help.  Whether it be from friends, community, or GRM, they are essentially filling the role of supportive family you may not have.

2) If you are in a dead town, figure out a way to get out, ASAP.  I saw that hinted at by others, and that's probably the biggest opportunity on the table right now.  It doesn't mean go move to downtown DC or something, but whats the nearest small/medium city that will have job opportunities on the table with real pay and a cost of living that's reasonable?

3) Regarding college, paying for your kids school is a noble goal, but it certainly sounds like given your current situation, its not really on the table.  Investigate other routes to pay/help them.  The most helpful thing you can do though is probably to establish your household/transportation/etc. as rock solid so they dont have any of that worry on their mind on top of their schoolwork.

How did I "succeed" at life?  I was dealt the right cards.  Grew up in a financially stable family, went to school, got a good job.  Made plenty of mistakes along the way, but with a financially stable family to fall back on in an emergency it allowed me to be more risky, dumb, etc.  I didn't figure out how to properly save/invest until age 30, but I hadn't made any major life mistakes prior to that would have really set me back.  Even then, as mentioned earlier, "success" is in the eye of the beholder.  

In what world is "give money you don't have to people that don't need it" considered good advice? Just Wow. 
 

The best thing I ever did was leave the place with no opportunity for someplace else. That's not easy at all, but realistically the best thing you can do, if you can. 

The_Jed said:

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

I think you nailed what I would deem to be the attributes of a successful person: Enough to comfortably retire in 20 years, A house that fits the family, a reliably vehicle that's not indicating some very expensive failures are on the horizon after less than two months of ownership (no extended warranty, it's on me) and, to be financially robust enough to help my kids pay for college. 


Some people say college is not necessary but, I wholeheartedly disagree. I know what I've gone through in my working life and I want none of that for my kids. 

Groovy, you've got a list, that can act as lodestar.  It's not a course, but it's at least a heading!

What I'd do now is try to figure out (with as real a number as you can figure!) what each of those things "costs."  Then you can come up with (or bounce it around here or with friends over a beer) how to attack each one.

For example, Retirement: 

I know you mentioned that you have a 401k, so you have a start on your retirement.  What's that number?  What number would make you feel confident that you can actually retire?  Remember that retiring doesn't necessarily mean that you have to stop working completely, but maybe take a low paying job that you don't mind for part time pay just to pay for food and such? 

General rule of thumb I've seen is that by retirement age, you should have 9-10x your income saved.   If you're in the $50k area, that means you need ~$500k total in the next 20ish years.  If you're okay with taking the "soft" retirement mentioned above and still doing some part time work at Lowes or whatever, maybe $400k is the minimum?  As I mentioned before, if you start maxing your RothIRA this year ($7000/year), you'll end up with $280,775 saved @ 6%, which means you'll need to rely on your 401k as well.    Now, I'm not an advisor, and this is not investment advise, but following the investment threads here on GRM and others, I've had my Roth on VTSAX and my rollover (i.e., 401k from old employer) on VIGAX for the past 15ish years.  Note that these two are "high risk" due to being all stocks, it's not a retirement account that's a large mix of bonds as well.   During that time, I've averaged an 11.6% return between the two.  If you start today and do the max investment amount and average 7.5%, you'll be at $329,000 at age 65.  That'll get you a large part of the way there!

Transportation:

You know the deal, it's time to suck it up and get a used Prius or equivalent until you get situated. Stick with boring and Japanese.  As shown here, you can probably wheel and deal on something that'll work for less than the replacement engine in the Dodge.  Fix up the Dodge as you can, so you have a backup.  Fix the other car you mentioned, then sell one once you've stabilized. 

College:

This is the tough one.  You have <1 year for one, and <3 years for the other.   There's no legal way to comp up with enough money to pay their way for 'em in two years, I don't think.   That's something like $30-60k, without the benefit of compound interest!  However, if you can stabilize the other facets of your life, providing a safe and reliable base of ops for them to attend is worth a LOT!

--------------

Either way, go through this for your entire life.  It's hard and time consuming.  It's what the "Within Your Means" spreadsheet I mentioned a few pages ago had us do to set our goals and realign our spending and savings. 

But, once you get through this excorize, you'll be looking at a (LARGE!) pile of accomplishable goals, instead of a general feeling of not knowing what to do! 

lownslow said:

Now you can down vote this next part, but a contribution to a church can really help.

Mrs Monohue and I discussed this tonight following the earlier comment. It seems to us that the magic here is in joining a club. Churches are clubs. As they say, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and when people know you, more and better opportunities can arise. If you're tithing while starving, the church and/or congregation will see you as faithful and selfless and will be practically obligated to leap to your rescue.

At least that's the way it looks to two reclusive heathens. We have no network and aren't willing to feign belief in order to get goodguy discounts and preferential treatment. It's frustrating for us that life is set up to exclude people like us, but we have made our choice.

None of that is of much value to The_Jed other than to say that you're not the only one out there more or less going it alone. I've made mistakes and  more than that, failed to commit to pursuing opportunities. I'm 50 now, making more than I ever have (and more than I ever thought I would), and don't really expect to retire before 70, and it will be a retirement void of travel and adventure. If I need a hobby, it'll be something nice and cheap, like origami or making valueless comments on an internet forum. It is what it is, as they say.

Charity is sort of like the oxygen mask on the plane.

Put yours on first so you're able to help other people. 

In reply to alfadriver :

Some are. Not all

DaveRamsey has a good comparison:

"God doesn't NEED our money. The point is for humans to learn to be cheerful giving people."

Lots a folks miss that part. 

Totaly irrelevant, anyway, Jed already believes what he believes, and tithing should never have really been in this thread. 
 

One foot in front of the other.  At one point I couldn't afford new shoes for my kids but had my needs met.  I didn't make much and my wife cut her hours to take care of our new twin boys and teenager.  That was my only low point and it was just a temporary imbalance of income to expense ratio.

My needs were met from good decisions as a young man.  I started out buying a duplex for my buddy and I to live in, rental side plus room mate made the house payment.  I paid extra on my mortgage from day one, after printing the amortization schedule, and getting freaked out.  

When I turned 21 and learned that I could double my investment with employer match to my 401k I took advantage of that.   27 years of working hard and always looking to what I can learn next put me in 3-4 different roles at the same employer, each one opening up more opportunity to grow.  Spring maker, Weld/Robot Tech/Lead/Maintenance/Purchasing guy, Designer/Machine builder.  Each role an advance from the previous.  27 years!  Two employment moves since then puts me where I am now.  Still not getting rich any time soon but steady investment means I will retire some day. 

I have not had any of the hardships that you have encountered.  You will get past this and start rebuilding, It will take time.

With two kids going away to College next fall, I understand the desire to offer help and being a factory rat for 35 years understand the push for higher education.  There was a girl who spent 3 hours a day during Covid break applying for grands, scholarships, sending essays to any and every place that offered even $500 towards tuition.  She ended up with enough to cover all expensed plus.  Point is you can't want it more than them, and school counselors colleges, businesses etc are there to help, but effort must be made for it to happen. 

My boys are getting about 60% covered in scholarships, I have maybe 10% to offer, they can work to cover the rest.  I told them all along to get the grades they are capable of to help out with tuition because I wouldn't be able to pay at today's rates.  

Also kids are expensive, I have one out and self sufficient already once the rest are I will be able to feel as well off as I am.  Sucks to make decent money and feel broke all the time.

In reply to 03Panther :

There are a LOT of good charities out there, other than a religion.  As a matter of fact, people donate money to universities for the express reason to help people get to college.  Which is one reason I brought up learning about need based scholarships for his kids.
 

One thing I do want to address- the stigma of asking.  I'll be honest that I don't have personal experience of this. but I am very aware that it happens and is real.  But please, tJ, ask.  People really do want to help, and *most* people won't look down on people who get help.  They (we) want you kids to grow up doing what they want to do, and expressly value education based on how we grew up.

I also know that when your kids go to college, they will feel people judging them, or feel something that their friends have *stuff* and can go out at will.  This happens, too.  Some schools have support system to help deal with that.

Anyway, I'm confident that you'll find a path for your kids as well as putting a system together to build off of. 

This is a good example of how generational wealth makes such an impact on people's lives. I don't even mean a big inheritance, I mean some stability, a home, some financial support from time to time.  It's just hard to start from so far behind in this day and age, and I don't see much on the horizon that will change this situation for so many people. 

I believe OP is sorta smack dab central Illinois aka Peoria area. I can lend a wrenching hand. I'm in NW Chicago suburbs.

In reply to alfadriver :

You asked a question about churches... I answered your question. I did not say anything against or for other charities. 
I did mention the folks that promoted "tithing, because you'll get back more, are missing the point, and religion shouldn't be a part of this particular thread. 
the rest of your post (directed at the op, and not me) I agree with completely 

I'm not on the admissions/financial side of the house, but even so I can suggest a few things as far as paying for college.

1) Above all else, make sure that the kids know that they're expected to both contribute (even if it's only a token amount) and perform to the best of their abilities. I see students every semester who are on someone else's dime and have zero sense of responsibility for the outcome. They do not tend to succeed. If they're not committed, don't throw your money away in an effort to get them to do something they're not sure about.

2) There's a lot of money out there. Admissions programs with funding, even if just for books and transportation, are becoming more and more common, and are often paired with requirements to meet regularly with a counselor to monitor progress. Pair something like that with grants, scholarships, etc., and there's good chance that a significant dent can be made. Knowing that most of these are contingent upon performance can be useful motivation as well.

3) College is what you make of it. At the highest levels, yes, there can be benefits to going to a prestige school, but for most students, it's all about doing the work and getting the most out of the opportunities presented. Community college for the first two years is both a money saver and a good test to see how they adapt to college work. Make sure they take classes that will transfer easily (this is usually the case if going to a state school for the last two years; some private schools may be more problematic).

My work depends on people continuing to see value in a four year degree program, but I tell my students on the first day of every semester that it's not the only way to make money, and in fact might be a slower path than certain skilled trades. Success in college depends on the student seeing value in what they're doing; if they don't, all the long-term hopes and dreams of people around them will likely be for naught. It's understandable to want a different path for them, but they are becoming adults and must ultimately make that choice - don't waste time and money pushing them down a path they haven't decided on for themselves.

Theres a lot of info in this thread, and I didn't read all of it so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but as a fellow member of the 'Dirt poor and drug abusing/absent parents' club, I'd like to simply and quickly share what I think were important keys to now being somewhat less poor, but wayyyyy much much happier in life. Please keep in mind that your experiences do not equal mine, and I don't want this to come across as preachy or judgmental.  

In no apparent order- 

1) basically toss my childhood away.  Realize that I was not given an ideal set of circumstances, but don't use it as a crutch to rationalize poor choices or bad stuff.  It took me a long time to understand that I alone was accountable for my happiness, not anyone else. 

2) Set a budget and stick to it like glue.  My parents spent every cent they had on instant dopamine hit items.  Booze, drugs, cars if they could...  I subconsciously learned and used all of their bad habits in my own adult life.  The first time I like, REALLY understood that money wasn't something you just blew every time you got some, it was eye opening.  My wife helped me with a budget and a spreadsheet that allowed me to live within my means and also have some practical insurance for inevitable berkery.  

3) one small thing at a time.  I used to get so overwhelmed at the seemingly massive hole I had to dig out of, that I'd just end up despondent and fall into old/familiar habits.  So now I just pick one small, realistic thing, and address that.  The rest can wait.  You really can eat an elephant, but you can only think about taking one bite at a time.  

4) This took a long time, and a therapist to realize, but she was 1000% right.  There's something about experiencing poverty and trauma as an impressionable child/adolescent that re-wires your brain to actually crave the experience.  Subconsciously, I used to self-sabotage because I was familiar with being broke, poor, and needing to care for adults... any time I'd get a break and get ahead, I'd think things were going too well and make poor decisions to knock me back down a peg. I didn't want to do it- but my actions actually were working detrimental to my goals because the brain always craves familiarity.  Essentially, I was doing it to myself.  Which sort of coincides with point #1.   You have to take personal accountability and not allow your poor hand to dictate your life's terms.   This one is tough to explain, I hope this makes sense.   

Regardless, I just want to wish you the best of luck, and I hope that things change for the better and you find happiness.  I spent a long time living under the storm cloud, and it took a wonderful woman and a good therapist to really truly, exact some change in myself.  Happiness is nothing more than a choice.  

Is any kind of home-based business a viable option? If you can run any kind of legitimate side hustle, it might really improve your situation. Even if not hugely profitable, you can often write off a portion of your mortgage and utilities according to the area of your home that you use in running that business.

I ran a little hobby business for a few years out of half of my garage. The tax writroffs for home use, as well as expenses like tools, were often worth more to me than the modest profit that the business earned.

In reply to The_Jed :

Dude, you started low and went through some E36 M3, yet you're still here and still putting in work to continue improving life for yourself and your family. That right there is success.

edit: yes, I know it's not the kind of success that you can spend, but it speaks to the strength of your character, and it says that you *will* keep improving life for yourself and your family.