How long to build 20K sq. ft. commercial space

I know this is a pretty open ended question but I am putting together a ROM timeline and I can't get the people who's paycheck depends on this to answer me fast enough.

Rough numbers:

20K sq foot, steel building, manufacturing space, not a warehouse, not exactly heavy manufacturing but barely over the light stuff you see in a lot of Butler buildings

assuming 5-6 months for design

Needs to have overhead cranes over ~5k sq ft., taller than standard building in that area ~40'

I am thinking 12-18 months construction time but would love an extra opinion on that. I know a lot of you are architects and construction folks.

Apprecaite the insight.

12-18 months is generous for the construction period. 
 

The time killer is the permitting process and the site development. We often have permits take 2 years to issue, and then 6-12 months in site work before we can build anything.

The issues are: plan review, code compliance, local regulatory compliance, weather and unforeseen site conditions. ALL of these are completely unpredictable and out of your control. 
 

The design shouldn't take 5-6 months. The lead time on the steel building (from the time you place the order until it is on site) could be the better part of a year.  If there is a new electric service, the lead time on transformers could take 12-18 months. 
 

Actual building construction?  I could put that up in 3-6 months. 
 

Also depends on the subs you choose (and how much you pay them). We used to shop for bargains. Those guys were a joke. They had no idea what they were getting into, and took forever. Several of our projects took more than a year for steel erection. Now we only work with the best (and they charge for it). My last building was 36,000 SF. The steel erection crew raised it, insulated it, and completed the entire exterior wall cladding and roofing in less than 3 weeks. The red iron was standing in 2 days. 
 

That wasn't a clean answer, but I hope it helps. 

Oh wait... missed the 40' height. 
 

It would take me 6-8 months actual construction time. (After three permits were issued, the building ordered, Sitework completed, etc)

In reply to SV reX :

That was a great answer, it gives me some context, helps me build a time line. I had permitting in the time line at 9 months, I also had that happening concurrent to design. I thought 3 months should do the design but the engineering firm we prefer is telling me at current load it is 5-6.

One potential building place has almost no site work, flat and build ready, one is a mess and has several months of moving dirt to get to where it needs to be. I was hoping to plan that work to happen during the design phase. I know the real ground work couldn't start until it was designed but hoping to get prepped to grade before they finished design.

I had the transformer lead time at 18 months but didn't think about the steel, that could be an issue.

Thank you again!

The biggest delays are caused by changes. 
 

You can't order your building until your architectural work is completed. COMPLETE.  If you place the order then make a few changes, the order will have to start over (you will lose your place in line for production).  Same for the power company placing an order for transformers before the electrical engineering is complete. Owners don't like to commit to their equipment plan 2 years before they get to occupy their building, but the electrical engineer can't complete his job without it, and the power company can't place their order without the engineering.

Owners like to blame contractors for delays, but they are almost always related to owner changes. 
 

If your design team and project management team is tight and can complete things well, your build process will go super quickly. If not, it won't. 
 

I could build it in 6 months, but it could also take 2 years if the owner doesn't get his E36 M3 together. 
 

That's why those guys don't want to tell you accurate timeframes. 

It's been a really long time since I built in NY. I could be WAAY off. 
 

We frequently do site work concurrent with final design work, but you need to know your building footprint to do a site plan. 
 

Example: the building I am building right now (in MS).  We started the site work almost a year ago. The building plans were underway, and the site plan was complete. As the building pad developed, unsuitable soils were found underneath. We could have undercut the entire building footprint ($130,000 extra), but we decided to be more surgical. As the building plans neared completion, the owner identified that the budget was running over ($1,000,000).  Building had to be redesigned.  Changed the footprint. We also changed the MoC so we could reduce the footing depth to miss the unacceptable soils.  The property sat silent for 3 months while the design team sorted out the changes. By the time the site contractor remobilized, all his prices changed and it had to be rebid.  Which pushed the budget up again. Endless loop.

The electrical engineer has never been able to complete his work because of the changes, so the power company has not yet ordered a transformer (and the owner still hasn't committed to an equipment list).  Steel hasn't been ordered either. 
 

Now, we are facing winter (wet in MS). We won't get the foundation in before that.
 

Bottom line, what should have taken 3 months of site work to get to a build-ready pad is gonna take almost 2 years. (And might still cost the original additional $1 million)

Im not sure who to blame for that...

Those are all fair comments. We have done a lot of pre-engineering work so I am optimistic that once someone says go we will be able to give the engineers good specifics of what we need with minimal changes. Heck we have paid the same firm that will design it well into 6 figure money  to do a BOD study.

SV reX said:

The design shouldn't take 5-6 months.

Yes, it should.

There are a lot of moving parts to put a box around.  Unless the client knows exactly what they want, can visualize it perfectly in their heads, and gets it exactly right the first time, the design will take 5-6 months.

There will be preliminary plans, reviews and changes, developed plans, more reviews and changes, and then half way through construction documents, the equipment vendor will change something, or the equipment bids will come back high and they will go to a different vendor, or they will add / delete a process line, etc... in other words, nothing is ever right the first time and as you noted, each change starts another cycle.  That's the same with the design team as it is with the regulatory agencies.  Plus, no architect or engineer is ever able to work 100% dedicatedly on this project from start to finish.

But all of that is going to pale in comparison to the site design and development plan approval.  In almost every jurisdiction, that's easily a 1-year minimum process, assuming you're not trying for any variances.

interesting on the permitting comments. I built one building on one proposed site 8 years ago and I don't remember the permit causing pain, but that was 8 years ago. 

I really need to put some attention there. 

In reply to NY Nick :

Generally, the building permit itself won't be an issue.  The site development approval process is typically the problem, with all the various stormwater management approvals, wetlands reviews, impervious area calculations, allowable area ratios, zoning compliances, traffic impact studies, etc etc etc. 

In most already-developed areas, that process get more byzantine every year, and the review times get longer and longer.  In Delaware, for instance, needing DelDOT traffic department signoff on your project can add 6 months to a year to the approval process.

Take your timing expectations and double it. Now double it again. That's how long it will actually take. Forget how much is cost pre-2020. The cost is going to be eye watering. 

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

I appreciate the honest feedback and now I want to barf a little....

In reply to Duke :

I'm not trying to minimize the work you do. I apologize. I was focused on the part that described this as a large footprint industrial space, like a Butler building. 
 

If Butler is designing a building, it shouldn't take 6 months. If a "real" building is being designed by a competent architect that is much more than a basic industrial box, it absolutely would. 

In reply to NY Nick :

Unfortunately, your experience 8 years ago is no longer relevant, and never will be again. 
 

Something happened during COVID that changed everything about the way lead times work.  (18 months for a transformer?  That's stupid. It's on the shelf.  12 month lead time for steel?  Heck no!  We wanna sell buildings!  3 months!)

Somehow in the middle of the supply chain breakdown delays became normalized. And once they were normalized, no one seemed to think there was ever any reason to return to the old normal. Companies found they could double their prices and deliver half the product in 3X the lead time and increase profits by 5X. And somehow, end line consumers accepted it as "normal".

My project manager used to work on 5 different current projects with 2 or 3 in the pipeline to break ground in a year.  Now he has 8-10 active projects (5-7 with major time delays) and 15 or 20 in the pipeline expected to start 3 years out.

Things have changed. 

In reply to NY Nick :

You can't (exactly) have design concurrent with permitting. They won't issue a permit if they don't have a plan to review. 
 

What you can do is break site engineering away from building design and apply for 2 separate permits- the first for site work only (with a proposed building footprint), then the building design can run (largely) concurrent with site work.   Then apply for a 2nd permit for the building on the (semi) completed (and previously approved) site. 
 

We now do that on almost all projects. (We have about 30 jobs running at a time). We are a design/ build company, so we don't mind starting a project without complete designs. However this screws up some owners (and subs and other vendors).   It doesn't allow for accurate and detailed pricing and bid comparison before the construction process has begun, so the budget remains in flux.

This is interesting and after reading this I have pushed out my building timelines. I don't like it but I asked and I know you guys know your stuff, glad you were able to give some guidance. I appreciate you. 

In reply to NY Nick :

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I respect a guy who does his homework. 
 

"Under promise and over deliver". It's easier that way. 

SV reX said:

In reply to Duke :

I'm not trying to minimize the work you do. I apologize. I was focused on the part that described this as a large footprint industrial space, like a Butler building. 
 

If Butler is designing a building, it shouldn't take 6 months. If a "real" building is being designed by a competent architect that is much more than a basic industrial box, it absolutely would. 

Fun fact, not relevant to this discussion, but Butler has a whole division that does bespoke buildings with in-house structural working with outside designers for the rest of the building systems/foundation design. Have done just shy of a dozen 100k+ sf buildings with them. 

Those designs take some time.

I agree lead times can be insane, but it has tempered a bit in recent months.  Lead times on dry-type transformers aren't too bad.  Panel boards are all over the place, depending on size. 250A and less - a couple of months.  400A and over - some almost a year... 

We often split the building construction into "shell" and "fit-out" phases. 

Sometimes the electrical engineer can start the utility process based on a Watts per square foot load estimate.  Or at least based on concept-level plans.   I've done that many times. 

Permits definitely vary a lot by location... but the permitting process for the building I'm working on now started back in 2016.

Definitely agree owner changes or indecision can be a huge delay. Or at best, a big risk.  I'm in the process of ordering about $2M worth of motor control centers for various pumps and process agitators all controlled by variable frequency drives.  Maybe half of the horsepower numbers I have are solid numbers based on vendor purchase order cuts.  But due to the project timeline, we're ordering the MCCs anyway.

We've been working on this project since 2022.  The shell is up but that's about it.  The client is hoping to start validation sometime in late 2025. Some of the equipment hasn't even been designed yet from the process side, much less ordered... and while I have some idea of what the electrical requirements will be (not my first rodeo), these particular systems are so custom that I have maybe 50% confidence in that.

Construction is... fun... it's part of why I'm dragging my ass so much on my own projects.  I'm completely burnt out at the end of the day. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

I agree lead times can be insane, but it has tempered a bit in recent months.  Lead times on dry-type transformers aren't too bad.  Panel boards are all over the place, depending on size. 250A and less - a couple of months.  400A and over - some almost a year... 

We often split the building construction into "shell" and "fit-out" phases. 

Sometimes the electrical engineer can start the utility process based on a Watts per square foot load estimate.  Or at least based on concept-level plans.   I've done that many times. 

Permits definitely vary a lot by location... but the permitting process for the building I'm working on now started back in 2016.

Definitely agree owner changes or indecision can be a huge delay. Or at best, a big risk.  I'm in the process of ordering about $2M worth of motor control centers for various pumps and process agitators all controlled by variable frequency drives.  Maybe half of the horsepower numbers I have are solid numbers based on vendor purchase order cuts.  But due to the project timeline, we're ordering the MCCs anyway.

We've been working on this project since 2022.  The shell is up but that's about it.  The client is hoping to start validation sometime in late 2025. Some of the equipment hasn't even been designed yet from the process side, much less ordered... and while I have some idea of what the electrical requirements will be (not my first rodeo), these particular systems are so custom that I have maybe 50% confidence in that.

Construction is... fun... it's part of why I'm dragging my ass so much on my own projects.  I'm completely burnt out at the end of the day. 

We got first of 3 substations yesterday that were ordered March of last year. For an upcoming building for the same client we're releasing substation now for shop drawings based on some educated guesses. Building isn't slated to open for production until early 2028.

In reply to Spearfishin :

Medium voltage stuff is a different matter.  This client mainly gets secondary service (a lot of them - 6 @2500KVA ea. for this project), but we do have one 4160V service dedicated for a 2.5MW electric boiler.   And yeah... the relatively simple 5KV indoor equipment disconnect switch will take around a year to get.

Fortunately for Nick, I doubt he'll need anything like that for a 20K foot building.  I'd probably try to stay with a 208V 3 phase secondary service, but it depends on what he's planning to do. 

You guys are great , my buddy is designing a new workshop and I will forward this to him , 

It will be pretty normal stuff , only thing is 220V-3 phase for the machine shop  , 

But I am sure he will learn a lot , and add another 12 months to his build window :)

Thanks