Huh, about the US' employment problem

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903596904576516653574988550.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

This is surely to help, right?

Sure to help Obama get re-elected? Yes. Though Bush III (That retard Rick Perry) has had HORRIBLE open-door immigration policy in TX. In the end though, the dems will write the bigger checks for welfare, foodstamps, etc. Because what we really need is more unskilled illiterate laborers looking for a handout.

You got it in one Mike, no doubt that is "business as usual" politicking.

Debt problem, what debt problem?

Don't look behind the curtain, ignore the man behind the current pulling the levers.

Is there a problem with letting people who want to live here stay and pay taxes? You could always send them back, but they will keep trying to get across until they make it. Please tell me they are going to steal your jobs.

FlightService wrote: Don't look behind the curtain, ignore the man behind the current pulling the levers.

Didn't we ask for change??? Better luck next time.

In reply to xd:

There is a big problem. We don't have enough jobs for them. We don't have enough jobs for the people who are all ready here legally. A criminal should not be rewarded for committing a crime. Thats what letting illegals stay does.The ones who are illegally ( about 20 million of them) are a net drain on the economies as they aren't paying into the system nearly as much as they take out. And the ones who are paying in are doing so by committing SS fraud. So weather or not illegals works they are not a net or even a gross gain in the system. For every employed illegal they literally do take a way a potential job for a legal resident/citizen. In the order of things legal people should always come before illegals. Then there are the numerous health issues that come from illegals. There is a reason why legal immigrants have to wait. Its to do things like get medical clearence so they don't bring in things like TB. TB was all but eradicated in America and has had a resurgence for no other reason than illegals that brought it in with them. Look at TB rates in prison populations of illegals and you see alarming results. There is also the language issue. In order to get most VISAs you need to be able to speak english. I'm sure where you live but just around the DC area you have to be able to speak spanish to get almost anything at a fast food joint. These entry level jobs for teens are now filled with people who are in their 30s and have no hope of advancing. That takes away valuable work place training in the younger population and contributes to the far to high youth unemployment. Then you have the drain on the education system that moves much needed resources from citizens to illegals and anchor babies.

Bottom line is hat letting anybody who wants to come in will crash an economy. Quicker when they send so much capital out of the country.

Every action taken by the government for the past ten years seems to have been done as part of an effort to destroy this country. At every turn folks who play by the rules get screwed while those that flaunt them get rewarded.

I may be socially liberal.. but I think that is going to far.

alot of the people who have been getting deported came in legally and did not continue the process. their seven years are up, their licenses expire IMMEDIATELY because of laws like the one NC passed, and they get tickets for driving with expired licenses. They get deported for committing a "crime" and have to start over in the country that they left in order to pursue a life where they could actually have meaningful employment afterthe age of 35.
dont try to dispute the fact that this goes on, I have family that is living it right now.

poopshovel wrote: Sure to help Obama get re-elected? Yes. Though Bush III (That retard Rick Perry) has had HORRIBLE open-door immigration policy in TX. In the end though, the dems will write the bigger checks for welfare, foodstamps, etc. Because what we really need is more unskilled illiterate laborers looking for a handout.

Boy, where do I begin? You are so far from right that there's no getting there from where you are. Well, except for the Dems writing checks part.

ThePhranc wrote: In reply to xd: There is a big problem. We don't have enough jobs for them. We don't have enough jobs for the people who are all ready here legally. A criminal should not be rewarded for committing a crime. Thats what letting illegals stay does.The ones who are illegally ( about 20 million of them) are a net drain on the economies as they aren't paying into the system nearly as much as they take out. And the ones who are paying in are doing so by committing SS fraud. So weather or not illegals works they are not a net or even a gross gain in the system. For every employed illegal they literally do take a way a potential job for a legal resident/citizen. In the order of things legal people should always come before illegals. Then there are the numerous health issues that come from illegals. There is a reason why legal immigrants have to wait. Its to do things like get medical clearence so they don't bring in things like TB. TB was all but eradicated in America and has had a resurgence for no other reason than illegals that brought it in with them. Look at TB rates in prison populations of illegals and you see alarming results. There is also the language issue. In order to get most VISAs you need to be able to speak english. I'm sure where you live but just around the DC area you have to be able to speak spanish to get almost anything at a fast food joint. These entry level jobs for teens are now filled with people who are in their 30s and have no hope of advancing. That takes away valuable work place training in the younger population and contributes to the far to high youth unemployment. Then you have the drain on the education system that moves much needed resources from citizens to illegals and anchor babies. Bottom line is hat letting anybody who wants to come in will crash an economy. Quicker when they send so much capital out of the country.

Where do I start with this? If they are legally here they will not be committing fraud they will be paying taxes. So that problem is solved for ya. If they get jobs then they will be legal residents and future citizens, So they wont be taking jobs from anyone. I don't know where you heard the English visa thing but it is either simply not true or there is a way around it because I know a lot of people that have come here legally that don't speak a lick of English. Your really blaming TB on illegals OK, sounds almost plausible if they tested everyone on every international flight into the U.S, but they don't and TB was never eradicated that kind of equates to blaming aids on gay people. also TB is an airborne disease and prisoners are in inclosed spaces so that might account for your high prison population with TB. If you cant beat out a guy that only speaks Spanish to save your Mcjob then you have more things to worry about them illegal immigration.

ThePhranc wrote: In reply to xd: We don't have enough jobs for them. We don't have enough jobs for the people who are all ready here legally.

Companies around here mainly pay illegals the same amount as anyone else. These companies need employees and will hire the legals before illegals because the feds show up and haul them off and no more employees. Of coarse this is not the case in all lines of work, I'm trying to find a new job, but I KNOW, yes KNOW that there are no illegals in that line of work. If legals wanted to be cutting the grass, they would be and would be getting payed for it. I'm not trying to justify entering the country illegally, but just making a point that jobs ARE available that people aren't going after.

HiTempguy wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903596904576516653574988550.html#articleTabs%3Darticle This is surely to help, right?

LOL at the Canadian poking the bear

corytate wrote: alot of the people who have been getting deported came in legally and did not continue the process. their seven years are up, their licenses expire IMMEDIATELY because of laws like the one NC passed, and they get tickets for driving with expired licenses. They get deported for committing a "crime" and have to start over in the country that they left in order to pursue a life where they could actually have meaningful employment afterthe age of 35. dont try to dispute the fact that this goes on, I have family that is living it right now.

I have seen this twice with co-workers, One was married to an Lady from the Balkens and the INS was dragging it's feet on her paperwork.. to the point where she couldn't legally do anything but sit at home. They couldn't deport her, but she couldn't work, couldn't get a DL, she couldn't even enroll their kid in school.

The other was a korean lady I worked with (And love) who every year, the casinos had to fire her because her time in the states was up. But because she was married to am american, she could not be deported. Three months of paperwork and aggravation later, she was back to work.

the US could make it a LOT easier on it's legal aliens

With all due respect, overstaying your visa is also a "crime".

The system is a huge mess, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the people involved are not "victims", but offenders.

Yes, I also have quite a few friends who are stuck in virtually every stage of this messed up INS system. They all KNOW they are in the wrong.

In reply to xd:

You didn't pay attention to why you can't just let them be illegal. So no the problems aren't solved. Blaming TB and other 3rd wold illnesses on illegals is nothing like blaming AIDS on gays. TB isn't a problem in prisons because of close quarters it is a problem in the illegal prison population. I clearly made that distinction. Did you ignore it or just didn't understand what you read?

The entirety of your post is rife with intellectual dishonesty.

In reply to N Sperlo:

To hire an illegal is much cheaper then it is to hire a legal. The wage may be the same but a company doesn't pay all the taxes and mandatory insurances ect. on an illegal.

Good luck finding a job. I wish illegals were the only reasons that jobs are hard to come by.

xd wrote: Where do I start with this? If they are legally here they will not be committing fraud they will be paying taxes.

No they won't be, as their incomes will be in the range where they pay such minimal taxes that they will be a net drain (or zero gain) on the system. Boy, that was one of the easiest debates I've had on the internet all week!

We seem to be on a path to fix the illegal alien problem. If we continue to trash the economy to the point that no one wants to be here - problem solved.

I'm actually in a bix of flux over the immigration issue at the moment. I was always one of those who said, "they're only taking the jobs Americans won't do.."

But these days, it seems that the "jobs Americans won't do" are the only ones left.

This post didn't format right.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'm actually in a bix of flux over the immigration issue at the moment. I was always one of those who said, "they're only taking the jobs Americans won't do.." But these days, it seems that the "jobs Americans won't do" are the only ones left.

I don't believe that was ever true.

If you let capitalism work, it usually works.

So, if nobody wanted to work the fields or dig the ditches, allow the price to rise accordingly in the marketplace. When people pay more, the value of the work will be more.

Perhaps the true value of tomatoes is more like $13 per lb.

There are plenty of people who will do those jobs at the right price.

Using illegal laborers was short sighted and lazy, nothing more. Business people were fearful of being the first to bring to market the price increase, or to try to do it right when everyone else was doing it lazy.

I admire the work ethic of many illegals I have worked with over the years, and I'll admit I was part of the problem by hiring them or failing to speak out against them. But that doesn't change the facts. I now realize that I was contributing to the long term undermining of the health of the economy, and failing to be creative in how I functioned in the marketplace.

I was wrong.

ThePhranc wrote: In reply to xd: You didn't pay attention to why you can't just let them be illegal. So no the problems aren't solved. Blaming TB and other 3rd wold illnesses on illegals is nothing like blaming AIDS on gays. TB isn't a problem in prisons because of close quarters it is a problem in the illegal prison population. I clearly made that distinction. Did you ignore it or just didn't understand what you read? The entirety of your post is rife with intellectual dishonesty.

What the hell are you talking about you are blaming the spread of an airborne disease on illegal immigration. Based on a prison population. Hey dude TB is spread "through the air" most airborne diseases are higher in prison because they are kept in a "closed confined space" hence the high population with the disease in your study. Is that also the "study" that told you TB was eradicated in the United States (your words) cause if Burt and Ernie did a "study" that might be the one. You are grasping at straws. Hence my comparison of your argument being "just like" someone who blames AIDS on the gay population. Neither comparison makes any sense. Do you understand now why your conclusion was flawed in the distinction that you so clearly made? See I was doing something called proving you wrong and your "study" flawed.

Also did you not read the article posted here I will quote it for you.

Under the plan, federal authorities will review individually all cases of immigrants currently in deportation proceedings. Those who haven't committed crimes and who aren't considered a threat to public safety will have a chance to stay in the U.S. and to later apply for a work permit.

See the whole thing about work permit. That kind of solves the whole problem of them "let them be illegal" as you put it. You missed the other "fact" stated about how you have to speak English to get most visas" That seems to be bullE36 M3 along with the rest of your facts.

Now lets talk about not understanding what we read shall we. You didn't read the article at all. You seem to think this article is about Mexicans. It's not its about Illegal immigrants your all focused on the fact that you cant order a Big Mac in English. Canadians for the most part speak English is it alright if those illegal immigrants stay? I mean there is not an official language of the United States, but according to you you cant even get "most" visas without speaking English. take a hint from the business owner if there demographic is Spanish speaking people why would they hire someone who cant speak Spanish.

I don't think English is required for a visa. It is required for naturalization or citizenship application, and visa paperwork not written in English is required to have English translation accompanying it.