I have a quick relationship question but, it's a bit of a long story to get there...

Mndsm said:

It's clear y'all (to me) y'all are on divergent paths. I learned from my divorce one thing and one thing only. The harder you go looking, the more likely you are to make a mistake. 

 

I wouldn't go lookin' at all. Not to say I'd reject advances or anything- but I would not actively pursue. If she's serious about it at any point, she'll get over whatever it is. 

Agree with every word of this! 
Im blessed to have learned this before marriage (not that I haven't made the mistakes) and have given that advice along the way. 

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to z31maniac :

That wasn't as much a concern as the assumption that it only two women slept with you then there's probably something wrong with you that they're not seeing yet.  Being childless past a certain age is also a problem for a lot of people for the same reason.  

As a life long bachelor with no kids, at 45, I used to get asked "Why? Is there something wrong with you?" 
A lot. 
"No, just smart enough to not be getting girls I ain't married to knocked up"

Mostly I was smart enough to not say it out loud. 
Mostly. 

In reply to ralleah :

If correct, it's a pretty lousy way for her to think. 

So, you're probably correct. 
That means he dogged a BIG bullet, since he sounds like he deserves someone that doesn't put her own insecurities out as his fault. 

She sees something either about herself or yourself that she is not willing to share but it being a deal-breaker. Consider that there is a 50-50 chance she might be doing you a favour.

From what you describe, this person has created a life where she pursues a positive feedback loop of pursuing physical perfection and receiving male/female approbation in return. Rinse and repeat for the next rush.  Much like people who are addicted to project cars; as much as we will commit heart and soul to the one we are working on, none are going to keep us happy forever.

Self awareness is a hard thing to achieve and significant change is impossible without it. The best bet is third party observation from a  trained therapist. I do not know where you two left off, but if you were willing to pay for it, and if she were willing to do it as an interesting  experience that won't cost her anything, I would say go to a couples therapist as a lark and see what might be  learned.  Nothing to lose for either one of you. Can't be any worse that asking for advice on a car forum eh?

Only one person knows the real reason she decided to break things off, and she's not on this board.

Maybe it just too much work to be in a relationship when she already has a house, a job, and a couple of kids to wrangle around.  

You were the easiest thing to downsize.

In reply to ralleah :

I agree with what you wrote, but I was surprised how much an issue it can be for certain people.  After losing my wife I joined an online support group because everything else was shut down.  Dating struggles are a regular topic and something that comes up often for both men and women is that having only been in a small number of relationships is a problem.  People have had a number of reasons why, and having talked about it I get it, but it wasn't something I expected to be a problem. 

Not everyone can maintain a healthy long term relationship. Maybe she just isn't who you thought. The "bodycount" issue is a factor for a reason. It is a real thing, and you can read about the negatives associated with having multiple sexual partners.

I will say, I'm kind of surprised people in your gym are making sexual comments during or after a roll.

I may have high expectations here, but as awesome as it was, the very fact that she was willing to pull the plug without so much as a word speaks volumes about her past, present, and future ability to have true intimacy - for whatever reason. And in any relationship, someday when the physicality eventually loses its draw then what else do you have besides intimacy with someone you love? 
 

Also, FWIW, we have biologically-placed hormonal rose colored glasses for the first six months of a relationship, so maybe in a while you'll see some flaws you don't see already. 

Mr_Asa said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

if you want to keep this woman in your life, you clearly need to up your body count.

Next time they meet in the gym:

"Hey, my body count is now 5.  When mine reaches yours, let's talk."

Next week: "I'm at 7!"

Etc

Brilliant! do a Goldberg style streak whether the body count is legit or not! once it's up to 173 she's yours!

NOHOME said:

From what you describe, this person has created a life where she pursues a positive feedback loop of pursuing physical perfection and receiving male/female approbation in return. Rinse and repeat for the next rush. 

I have a good friend who's wife decided she wanted a better life with someone else and split. Big mistake on her behalf, which she later realized, but that's possibly another story. He quickly met a girl who is pretty much perfect in every way, they became an item, and now they're buying a house together. Through some discussion it sounds like she's done this with two guys previous. He doesn't see this possibly happening to him. I tried to prepare him nicely but his blinders are on and he's pretty full of himself because he's scored this near perfect girl.

I've been there, it's a thing.

calteg said:

People show you who they are at the beginning of a relationship. Believe them. 

Quoted for truth!

As a woman, if I say that I'm not ready for a real relationship or anything to that effect, what I'm really saying is "you're a nice guy and I don't want to hurt you, but I'm not really interested". I would let her go, if anything 'pursuing' her at this point would probably ruin any future chances you have (and potentially make you look like a creep). Respect boundaries and all that.

It's easy to say this from this side, but, she's not into you for whatever reason. Might be legit, might not, but that does not change it. Find someone who is. 
 

On a positive note, for the next one that asks, you're up a number. 

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ralleah :

I agree with what you wrote, but I was surprised how much an issue it can be for certain people.  After losing my wife I joined an online support group because everything else was shut down.  Dating struggles are a regular topic and something that comes up often for both men and women is that having only been in a small number of relationships is a problem.  People have had a number of reasons why, and having talked about it I get it, but it wasn't something I expected to be a problem. 

I've been a serial monogamist until now, so I definitely hear what you're saying. I don't agree with the perspective of less partners being an issue alone, it's a quality and quantity thing. We all learn and grow more from more perspectives in our lives, and from some of those being deeper connections. We also don't always get a full say in when and how we experience those things. 

In reply to ralleah :

There could be any number of reasons why that's a deal breaker for her, and she really doesn't have to justify why it's something that matters to her. Most of us have something that os a red flag for us, at least for the OP's sake she was upfront about it instead of going on to a situation no one is happy in.  If I came of as disagreeing I didn't intend to, more that the last few years have been an interesting experience for lack of a better term. 

@NOHOME: When I first read your comment about couple's therapy I scoffed and said to myself, "We were only together for just under two months, I'm not going to couple's therapy.". I guess that's my answer right there. Again, thank you for helping me see the big picture.



@RaceBrick: It happens sometimes while grappling. I bounce around from gym to gym sometimes and there were occasions of prolonged eye contact with very much not Jiu Jitsu grinding and lots of non-Jiu Jitsu-oriented questions spoken so that only I could hear them. Also some illicit fondling and kissing on one occasion. On the other hand, this morning I rolled with seven guys and two women and it was all purely non-sexual grappling.  It was lovely.


I have no interest in dating and/or berkeleying lots of random people. Twice since last Saturday when she called and pulled the plug I've set up and deleted profiles on a couple of different dating apps. I sat and stared at my profile for a bit, had a good sardonic chuckled, then killed it. It just seemed sad and desperate. 


 

Totally_not_a_current_GRMer said:

@NOHOME: When I first read your comment about couple's therapy I scoffed and said to myself, "We were only together for just under two months, I'm not going to couple's therapy.". I guess that's my answer right there. Again, thank you for helping me see the big picture.

Maybe you'd benefit from seeing a therapist just for yourself. We'd like you to be happy and healthy, and it seems like you've got some E36 M3 you'd benefit from figuring out and working through.

Your suffering isn't noble.

She'd probably benefit from therapy too, but that's her life. You can only live your own. Get your E36 M3 together, and you're more likely to meet a partner who has the same.

In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :

I do believe you got the message I failed to communicate.  I  thought that since the post was about a "Relationship" that there might be an interesting angle. Not for saving this relationship so much, but for future consideration. If they went as a "couple" it might be a more contextually relevant and useful experience. 

It has been put forth by smarter people than myself that,   in order to save time and sanity, couples therapy should be considered at the start of a relationship, not when it it has engine failure at 25,000 ft.

Short answer:  Next.

Longer answer:  First, I'd never reveal my body count (which actually isn't high). Nothing good can come from that discussion on either side...as you found out. Second, if someone breaks up with someone, you should consider it over. There isn't a match. Whatever the reasons are, they don't ultimately matter.

Always remember, there is no 'one'. There are lots of potential companions out there in the world. 'Soul mate' is just a fantasy. I'm sure some will argue that they found theirs and they've been happily married for decades. No, you had a good picker and got lucky. Real life is not a Disney rom-com.

Also always remember:  you are the prize. This woman came on to you. You clearly are attractive. There will be more, and it will become even more apparent the older you get, because the competition is likely getting fat and lazy. 

I think you got out easy.  Take it as a learning experience and move on. 

NOHOME said:

In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :

It has been put forth by smarter people than myself that,   in order to save time and sanity, couples therapy should be considered at the start of a relationship, not when it it has engine failure at 25,000 ft.

I've heard the industry rule of thumb is that couples therapy is typically started three years later than it should be.

Anecdotal case in point: four years ago, a woman I worked with was telling me in a light-hearted-ish way about something her husband did that she hated and how she was trying to subtly circumvent him. I caught some themes of bitterness too and tried to casually throw out there about a couples counselor I knew. She laughed it off and said "oh we just go through these phases."

In January she texted to ask for help copying hard drives of the kids' pictures since she and her husband split up. 

NOHOME said:

In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :

/snip/ It has been put forth by smarter people than myself that,   in order to save time and sanity, couples therapy should be considered at the start of a relationship, not when it it has engine failure at 25,000 ft.

When I got married the pastor would not do the ceremony unless my fiancé and I had completed four weeks of couples counseling. Wow, was that a good move.

ddavidv said:

Short answer:  Next.

Longer answer:  First, I'd never reveal my body count (which actually isn't high). Nothing good can come from that discussion on either side...as you found out. Second, if someone breaks up with someone, you should consider it over. There isn't a match. Whatever the reasons are, they don't ultimately matter.

Always remember, there is no 'one'. There are lots of potential companions out there in the world. 'Soul mate' is just a fantasy. I'm sure some will argue that they found theirs and they've been happily married for decades. No, you had a good picker and got lucky. Real life is not a Disney rom-com.

Also always remember:  you are the prize. This woman came on to you. You clearly are attractive. There will be more, and it will become even more apparent the older you get, because the competition is likely getting fat and lazy. 

This here is berkeleying great advice. And backs up what I said about body count.

I'm going to go a different way.

The way I see it, she pulled the plug for one of two reasons:  1) she actually thinks she's doing you a favor because she's not worthy, or 2) she has other reasons for leaving but wanted to do it in a way that caused you the least pain.

If it's #1, it's a valid feeling on her part, but it's complete BS.  Only you get to decide if she's worthy of you.  If it's #2, the only way you'll find out is if you take another go at it.  Here's the important part, and I think you already get this notion:  If she's out, respect it.  Nothing is creepier than a stalker.  It will make her feel unsafe, and women have enough of a hard time finding safe spaces in this world.

It's possible (depending on her personality) that she has shut an emotional door in her mind and there is no hope.  Two of my exes were this way.  One of them (Baltimore girl) discovered she had fallen out of love with me and she dumped me hard.  That was 6 years ago.  We are friends now, and the funny part is that she still looks at me the same way with the same awe.  I know she probably has feelings for me, but she shut the door in her mind and she won't ever open it again.  The second one (Hot for Teacher) is definitely still in love with me, but an otherwise benign disagreement triggered a trauma, and she shut the door hard.  Sad to lose her, but that door is closed for her.

If the door has been shut, you can't pry it open.  Even if you did, it wouldn't be the same.  I would suggest being honest with her about your feelings and that you want her back.  Don't do it in a way that is pleading or unhealthy.  If she accepts the invitation, great.  If she doesn't, go back to the gym.