I wonder if Wonder Woman can be wonderful enough to win awards and change how we view movies?

I will likely watch it some day. I'm just about over super hero movies, though. Between Marvel insisting on destroying any hope of closure by displaying the next thing to kill us all in the closing moments of their movies, and DC's insistence on creating emo-superheros... Honestly, I thought the dude that played Superman in the two most recent piece of E36 M3 movies ( I can't make it through the first, and absolutely hate the idea of Supes and Batman being enemies, so no go on 2.) was just a crap actor. Then I saw in in Man from UNCLE, and he was great.

Superman can fly. He's indestructible. He has no particular reason to whine about his lot in life.

Boost_Crazy wrote: Okay, what am I missing? I've heard this frequently about this movie, but we've had strong female lead rolls for decades. So much so that no one even mentions it anymore, it's normal. Except for this one? Did this movie get delayed 20-30 years and they went with press releases from back then? What about this is different and "world changing?"

But think about the target audience, rating, and general cultural impact of super heroes/comic books and movies based on them. Most of those strong female lead roles are in R-rated films for adults. You've got Disney princesses for kids. For the teens in between, what have you got? Hunger Games and the latest Star Wars?

Super Heroes are a really integral part of modern mythology. Wonder Woman is an archetypal character that's sort of imbedded in our modern psyches in a way that Rey and Katniss just aren't.

This is the first Super Hero movie with a woman as the one and only lead.

There have been super hero movies where the female was a main character or more likely, a supporting character.

The fact that Hollywood still doesn't seem to understand that she doesn't need to be saved by a man or fall in love with a man to make her an interesting character is one of the main issues this movie and similar ones before it are truly fighting to change.

For an example how NOT to do a female "super hero" movie, look at Catwoman. It was horrible and earned several Razzies.

Also see: SuperGirl for further examples of poorly made female superhero movies.

Ok, so in the world of narrowly defined superhero movies (DC and Marvel), this is a big deal because they don't make many with female leads, and this is the first "good one." While a good thing, I'm still lost on the world changing part. Not knocking the OP, more of a comment on the media hype of the movie, which sounded suspiciously like plain old marketing. It's all about the $$$.

In reply to Beer Baron:

Trust me - any girl who is now 16 knows who Katness Everdeen is and likely never cared or heard of Wonder Woman until the trailer dropped in the prequel of Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

It's embedded in OUR psyche because we are old enough to remember it. And what I remember is a E36 M3ty cartoon followed by a hot chick in stars and stripes on a really terrible TV show. WW wasn't relevant to most people until the Superfriends Justice League E36 M3 hit Saturday AM in the early 70s. The comics sucked. The Linda Carter TV show sucked but probably is the #1 reason anyone 40+ knows the character. Anyone under 40 has no reason whatsoever. The real reason we have this flick is that the studio was running out of top tier heros to make movies about and Wonder Woman is just the best of the B level heros. Aquaman is just around the corner. We still got 3 or 4 Spiderman and Batman reboots, two Fantastic Four movies and Thor before anyone was willing to fund this so that right there tells you something. You know it's really over when the Wonder Twins and Gleek activate in theaters near you.

If it turns out to be entertaining, great. I also look forward to the Halloween and Cosplay costumes. Otherwise... the cultural significance of this movie is measured in dollars.

In reply to Beer Baron:

But think about the target audience, rating, and general cultural impact of super heroes/comic books and movies based on them. Most of those strong female lead roles are in R-rated films for adults. You've got Disney princesses for kids. For the teens in between, what have you got? Hunger Games and the latest Star Wars? Super Heroes are a really integral part of modern mythology. Wonder Woman is an archetypal character that's sort of imbedded in our modern psyches in a way that Rey and Katniss just aren't.

I disagree. Kids today aren't hung up on "real" superheroes. How many kids read comic books today? Those are for the parents. Hunger Games, the Divergent series, those are more relatable to by kids today than their parents and grandparents comics.

Boost_Crazy wrote: Ok, so in the world of narrowly defined superhero movies (DC and Marvel), this is a big deal because they don't make many with female leads, and this is the first "good one." While a good thing, I'm still lost on the world changing part. Not knocking the OP, more of a comment on the media hype of the movie, which sounded suspiciously like plain old marketing. It's all about the $$$.

World changing, no. But the argument I've heard is that it's potentially movie/pop culture changing. It is all about the $$$, as you said. The argument I've heard is that major studios have not wanted to put this kind of money behind female super hero movies or female-directed action movies because they believe there is not enough of a market for them. That this movie seems to be proving that wrong.

What this movie seems to be proving is that there is a huge market for well-made super hero movies right now, regardless of the gender of the lead or director.

Boost_Crazy wrote: I disagree. Kids today aren't hung up on "real" superheroes. How many kids read comic books today? Those are for the parents. Hunger Games, the Divergent series, those are more relatable to by kids today than their parents and grandparents comics.

Doesn't mean those characters are permanent parts of the social psyche. Batman, Superman, Spiderman... are definitely permanent fixtures in our cultural mythology, even if people have never read any of the comic books. I'm not sure if Hunger Games will have a longer lasting cultural impact than Twilight. Harry Potter, definitely. But I don't know about Hunger games.

It may be that we're all guys discussing this point. Without a womans' perspective it's similar to a bunch of caucasians discussing how we see "Shaft" or the like.

My point being that TM grew up in the late 70's dreaming of being and dressing up like, Wonder Woman. And given the relative lack of real female superheroes I think it's cool she finally gets to see her childhood fantasy brought to life on the big screen with a big budget.

Mine was Wolverine, and it's been done so yay me. But for literally half the population, the female superhero they identified with hasn't gotten the same shrift.

Much like Marvel introduced several characters before bringing them together in the Avengers, we should have a Justice League movie in the next two years or less.

Ricky Spanish wrote:

Kramer wrote: Maybe I'm the only one, but I have absolutely no interest in any superhero movie. I did watch The Dark Knight at an Imax because a friend invited me (and I enjoyed it). Not enough to see any other one, though.

I'm with you - they're pretty much universally dreadful, even when people say they're good.

both of your opinions are wrong...just sayin

The Nolan DK trilogy was epic, even with Bale stinking up the joint. The 3rd movie was awesome from a plot development perspective. It wrapped up the storyline cleanly, though it did allow the action to falter compared to the other 2. In fairness though, you could have Nolan film a decent cast reading the phone book, and set it to a Hans Zimmer soundtrack, and youd probably be looking at Oscar noms in some form or another - He definitely is one of the greatest directors of the new millennium.

The Marvel universe is really defining the Genre. I cant remember a similar group of films that were able to manage individual story lines for so many characters, and also wind them together into a manageable storyline that gave each of them their own role without stepping on each others toes. While the Hulk series has had its flops, and the McGuire Spiderman series died a spectacularly terrible death (due to equally terrible writing), the Iron Man series and the Capt. America series are really REALLY well written, cast, acted, directed, filmed, and edited. If you look at many of the Marvel Flops, it was the stories that were owned by Fox (Marvel had to sell off some story rights in the 90s to fund the Universe).

I didnt love the recent Superman v Batman movie, but I understand its puprose - it sets the framework for DC's own "Universe". I know theyre really focussing on the individual characters from the Justice League, in order to give rise to a JL series of movies.

And, just like the automomtive WRC arms race that developed over the 80s and 90s, the real winners in the DC v Marvel battle for dominance will be the public. I really feel like the competition will either A). create an incredible decade of film making, or B). the storylines will become so outlandish that the polarization of the audience will be unbelieveable.

In either case, I (as a big comic fan) will win. If the 2 studios go crazy with over the top CGI, bonkers stories etc, then I win. If they settle into a really strong cinematographic war that churns out well crafted movies that the populace as a whole enjoys, then I win too

4cylndrfury wrote: The Nolan DK trilogy was epic, even with Bale stinking up the joint. The 3rd movie was awesome from a plot development perspective. It wrapped up the storyline cleanly, though it did allow the action to falter compared to the other 2. In fairness though, you could have Nolan film a decent cast reading the phone book, and set it to a Hans Zimmer soundtrack, and youd probably be looking at Oscar noms in some form or another - He definitely is one of the greatest directors of the new millennium.

I agree. Speaking of Nolan, how good does "Dunkirk" look? That's an opening-night flick for me for sure.

The Marvel universe is really defining the Genre. I cant remember a similar group of films that were able to manage individual story lines for so many characters, and also wind them together into a manageable storyline that gave each of them their own role without stepping on each others toes. While the Hulk series has had its flops, and the McGuire Spiderman series died a spectacularly terrible death (due to equally terrible writing), the Iron Man series and the Capt. America series are really REALLY well written, cast, acted, directed, filmed, and edited. If you look at many of the Marvel Flops, it was the stories that were owned by Fox (Marvel had to sell off some story rights in the 90s to fund the Universe).

I've been saying this for a while, but if Star Wars was the defining movie series of my youth (born in 1970), the MCU is the defining movie series of my kids' generation (born in 2000). They just keep cranking out entertaining, heartfelt, funny, action-filled movies that are simply fun to watch. They've had their misses, but even those are still decent.

After going to see it last night, I was left with one question: Who/what the berk was Luttendorf? (Movie Luttendorf, not genuine historical Luttendorf)

Also saw Wonder Woman last night. It was good, yes. It was not paradigm-changing. Gal Gadot is attractive, yes, and the character is also intelligent and strong (emotionally, mentally, and of course physically). All that is as it should be. Well written and well made on that score. Pacing was pretty good, though in the newfangled recliner seats, DW was nodding off in the middle.

That being said, I'm pretty much over the trademark Zack Snyder look. The muted colors so we know it's historical, the weird semi-polished texture of everything (seriously, somehow even the dirt and smoke in his movies is vaguely shiny), the post-Matrix stutter speed. It wasn't terrible, but it's time for him to move on.

Meh. Not a bad movie, but definitely not up to the hype.

My grown daughters saw it and recommended I not go see it and one of them thinks she IS Wonder Woman and has every piece of WW stuff ever made (plus all my old WW comics from the 60's).

I don't see the woman bias in films so many of you see.

Streetwiseguy wrote: The Long Kiss Goodnight. Geena Davis. You want a strong female lead, there you go.

One of my favorite movies, and horribly underappreciated. I loved it when Samuel L. Jackson was on The Late Late Show earlier this year that he said that Long Kiss Goodnight was one of his favorite movies he'd been in.

NickD wrote: After going to see it last night, I was left with one question: Who/what the berk was Luttendorf? (Movie Luttendorf, not genuine historical Luttendorf)

Movie Luttendorf is a German general with slightly caricatured WW1-era thinking who likes to snort gasified meth

Saw the movie last night, it was pretty good. Great action scenes.

Oh and Gal Gadot is hot /ducks

Duke wrote: the weird semi-polished texture of everything (seriously, somehow even the dirt and smoke in his movies is vaguely shiny),

It's a pseudo-HDR effect, similar to Larry Chen's secret sauce.

Boost_Crazy wrote: Ok, so in the world of narrowly defined superhero movies (DC and Marvel), this is a big deal because they don't make many with female leads, and this is the first "good one." While a good thing, I'm still lost on the world changing part. Not knocking the OP, more of a comment on the media hype of the movie, which sounded suspiciously like plain old marketing. It's all about the $$$.

The world changes a little bit at a time. No, a movie isn't going to cause an enormous shift in our culture, but it can be a force for good. One small step at a time and before you know it we've improved significantly.

I love to tell the story of Whoopi Goldberg seeing Star Trek for the first time, as a child. She saw Uhura, and in Golberg's words: "I looked at it and I went screaming through the house, 'Come here, mum, everybody, come quick, come quick, there's a black lady on television and she ain't no maid!' I knew right then and there I could be anything I wanted to be."

If that scene played out in her house it played out in a lot of houses, and there's no denying what a force for good something like that is.

Finally saw it today. It was a very par super hero origin story. I'd say about as good as Captain America.

Aside from the trench and beach battles, I thought the action sequences were just okay.

The ending just had me mentally completing lines with quotes from Star Wars, particularly Return of the Jedi.

Duke wrote: Also saw *Wonder Woman* last night. It was good, yes. It was not paradigm-changing. Gal Gadot is attractive, yes, and the character is also intelligent and strong (emotionally, mentally, and of course physically). All that is as it should be. Well written and well made on that score. Pacing was pretty good, though in the newfangled recliner seats, DW was nodding off in the middle. That being said, I'm pretty much over the trademark Zack Snyder look. The muted colors so we know it's historical, the weird semi-polished texture of everything (seriously, somehow even the dirt and smoke in his movies is vaguely shiny), the post-*Matrix* stutter speed. It wasn't terrible, but it's time for him to move on.

Hey! Remember when he did 300?! Remember that?

Yea it's time for that gritty muted emo film style to be laid to rest.

Unfortunately for WW Snyder's finger prints will remain on the DC universe for a while. WW has been the archetype for female super heros for quite some time. I'm glad the movie did her some justice.

Beer Baron wrote: Finally saw it today. It was a very par super hero origin story. I'd say about as good as Captain America.

Okay... but she would wipe the floor with Cap. Much as I like him.

I enjoyed it. In fact, I kinda hope they don't make another because it'll all get tangled up in 37 other superheros and the baddies are just going to get more and more ridiculous. I'd be perfectly happy if this stood alone as a single story. It'll never happen, of course. But it would be very acceptable if it did.

Like Robert Downey Jr as Tony Stark, I think Gal Gadot was perfectly cast for this role.

I don't really do super hero movies, but the wife and I had a free afternoon so we went and saw WW. I quite enjoyed it.

Worth paying to see in the theater: Yes.

Worth the hype? No. I didn't like the bad guy. He could've made an appearance, kicked her ass and made for a rematch sequel later down the line. I felt like she was fighting a God with centuries of battle experience against other gods, and she seemingly pulled new abilities out of a hat. It's almost Rey level "I know Kung Foo" Force learning. When compared to Luke who got beat down in his first match, Wonder Woman looks like she could take on Supes and win, and that's just unrealistic, even within this magical universe.

I prefer my superheros to learn skills and abilities in somewhat realistic fashion. Nolan's Dark Knight did it best. Even the first Iron Man kinda explained how and why Stark was best suited (pun) to learn his abilities. Captain America did it well too.

I felt like as an origin story, Wonder Woman was a bit too rushed, and her foe a bit too powerful for inaugural debut.

She does have a kickass theme song though.

Giant meh.

Captain America redo. With boobs.

Sorry, it was neither a well done movie, nor paradigm shifting.

My 13 year old daughter thought it was a meh too.

BTW- the theatre was packed- with BOYS. Looks to me they went to see a hot girl dressed in skimpy clothes.

Telling women that "They too can be Super Heroes" is pretty much identical to saying they are "Almost as good as boys".

And if the only way to empower women we can think of is to dress them in more skimpy outfits, we are truly pathetic.

Women need to be appreciated as women, not as how manly they can be.

The problem for my 13 year old was, in spite of the hype, there was absolutely nothing about the character she could relate to. It didn't inspire her, because she couldn't relate to it. She's not an Amazon, she can't fly, she isn't stacked like a brick E36 M3house, she doesn't have boys falling all over her, and she can't whoop the entire German army armed with nothing but a sword.

But she IS a black belt.

I think that is part of the reason Tony Stark is at least somewhat about to relate to: he's a smart dude who invents cool technology to make him a superhero.