If you have to ask . .. .

STOP! I have an unhealthy desire to go down to the Chevy dealer and order a Camaro SS 1LE. Hoping I'll be able to later this year or this time next you.

spitfirebill wrote: I must'a slept through the whole cocaine-debauchery period of the 80s, because I have no idea what y'all are going on about. I too thought it was from JP Morgan. Yea, he probably should be allowed to look down his nose at me.

There was a huge coke-debauchery period in the 80s but I thought it was more stock brokers. One of my first jobs in high school was in a warehouse where I was exposed to the boss' coke and Porsche loving son. They would use the If you have to ask line jokingly and knowing we were broke kids would throw us a little something here and there. The old man was also fond of throwing around some Yiddish but preferred " schmeckle" to the overused "schmuck".

SVreX wrote: Huh. I'm older than the OP. Feel free to tell me "If you have to ask...". I couldn't care less., and you're probably right. I'll smile, and probably agree with you. If I choose to insult you, I will make sure to use no indistinguishable nuances.

I was born in 1965. Dunno about Paul's age, but I'm with him here: to me, it's a simple statement of fact. Honestly, to the people I grew up with, it's far more likely that we would tell each other that while discussing something way out of our own league, rather than try to use it as described by Dean.

I hear it frequently, but it's usually my wife and me talking to each other.

Wait! Are you saying she was trying to be condescending toward me??

But, but, but....all her money is mine!?!? I'm so confused....

(Yeah, I totally don't get it)

I generally assume people are being straight and honest toward me. I don't assume they are trying to put me down. It's just easier that way.

I would think asking someone how much their stuff is worth would be far more rude than the reply of "If you have to ask", unless they are a shady craigslist seller.

I associated the coke parties with stock brokers too. I think it was the 80's. I'm 45 so it fits with it being an attitude of the working 20 somethings stock broker/high powered lawyer types and then becoming a joke stereotype to my age range by the time we became professionals.

Wall-e wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: I must'a slept through the whole cocaine-debauchery period of the 80s, because I have no idea what y'all are going on about. I too thought it was from JP Morgan. Yea, he probably should be allowed to look down his nose at me.

There was a huge coke-debauchery period in the 80s but I thought it was more stock brokers. One of my first jobs in high school was in a warehouse where I was exposed to the boss' coke and Porsche loving son. They would use the If you have to ask line jokingly and knowing we were broke kids would throw us a little something here and there. The old man was also fond of throwing around some Yiddish but preferred " schmeckle" to the overused "schmuck".

It was the tech stocks and the tech explosion in computers and what not. So ya I guess that was not technically the dot com boom of the 90's. That was what it actually transformed in to.

I guess, since I've never paid attention to that particular phrase, that I have never been offended.

Having said that, if somebody asked me what my new Ferrari cost, I would not say "If you have to ask..." , I would say, "berkeley off, none of your berkeleying business." Which is ruder?

Duke wrote:

SVreX wrote: Huh. I'm older than the OP. Feel free to tell me "If you have to ask...". I couldn't care less., and you're probably right. I'll smile, and probably agree with you. If I choose to insult you, I will make sure to use no indistinguishable nuances.

I was born in 1965. Dunno about Paul's age, but I'm with him here: to me, it's a simple statement of fact. Honestly, to the people I grew up with, it's far more likely that we would tell each *other* that while discussing something way out of our own league, rather than try to use it as described by Dean.

We would use it between close friends out in the woods by the campfire drinking beer as well and that was all fun and ok. It was like we were mocking those that had more than we did (or at least we thaught they did at the time).

I hate to use this analogy but here goes. I use to heard people of color use the N word when talking amongst themselves (we again are talking 20-30 years back) and I guess that was "ok" but as we all know at the same time had "outsiders" used the N word it would be extremely offensive. Like, get you killed offensive. No joke I saw some serious street justice handed out. Now days the N word is a zero tolerance thing as it should but I remember a time when the N-word was tossed around between friends (my friends and they seemed to be ok with it) but had I said it and even as a friend it would have been very uncomfortable at best and probably got me a beating. A stranger saying it would spark an all-out blood bath. As it was very offensive (as it should have been) Yes the "if you have to ask" is different. But it was still considered a derogatory social-economic statement about someone. Like many of these things if you are amongst friends it is usually ok and even joked about but outside of that context, it can be very hurtful and socially inappropriate. Hell, it is probably inappropriate amongst friends as well for that matter.

Streetwiseguy wrote: I guess, since I've never paid attention to that particular phrase, that I have never been offended. Having said that, if somebody asked me what my new Ferrari cost, I would not say "If you have to ask..." , I would say, "berkeley off, none of your berkeleying business." Which is ruder?

Nowadays you can always defer the socially correct answer of "Google it"

SVreX wrote: I hear it frequently, but it's usually my wife and me talking to each other. Wait! Are you saying she was trying to be condescending toward me?? But, but, but....all her money is mine!?!? I'm so confused.... (Yeah, I totally don't get it) I generally assume people are being straight and honest toward me. I don't assume they are trying to put me down. It's just easier that way.

I get that today for most it is not a big deal. The problem is that I guess to some of us it WAS something else. I cringe every time see it typed and a little bit of the red mist creeps in if it is directed towards me. I grew up in a wealthy town but on the other side of the tracks. That term was not a bestowment of praise when it was being used when I was young. I was one of the ones that were told I should not be asking.

"dotcom" was not 80s. During the 80s, the Internet was pretty much the exclusive domain of nerds and it consisted of a few tens of thousands of "mini" computers and workstations at universities and a few network-related companies. "dotcom" started with the invention of the World Wide Web and NCSA Mosaic in 1992, and it didn't become an "overnight millionaire" phenomenon until 1997 or so.

The cocaine thing was definitely 80s -- think Miami Vice, etc.

As for the phrase, I'm also solidly gen-X (born in 1972) and I first encountered it in the 1970s as a wry expression for why certain expensive luxuries (menus at fancy restaurants, jewelry dealers, etc) didn't have prices listed. I've never heard it used condescendingly.

Ya I mixed up my decades it was the tech and stock thing of the 80's. That decade was kind of a blur for me.

In reply to dean1484:

I still hear the N word. Multiple times per day by blacks, and bi-weekly by whites.

I stop the whites.

(Not that it matters, but I was raised in a bi-racial household)

In reply to dean1484:

Can I suggest something?

If you are feeling insult by that phrase, I suggest you turn it around. Those Coke parties weren't that good anyway. Why care about hanging out with those azzhats? How 'bout if you use it in your head as a trigger to help you recognize who the jerks are, and know that you are better than them, and that their money does not make them better than you.

I think what is interesting about the retort of "If you have to ask..."

Is that back in the day, prices of things were a lot more difficult to determine.

These days, if someone says "if you have to ask..."

I'll just reply with "well I googled it and your Bugatti Chiron costs about $2,644,306" and no I can't afford but at least I KNOW THE DAMN PRICE YOU FOOL

"If you have to ask..." is usually preceded by "what's one of those cost?". If the possibility of an elitist reply bothers you, there is a simple solution: don't ask. If you're truly curious, use the internet.

If the situation demands small talk and you expect somebody might get all economically superior... I suggest pound puppies as a topic. (Never Purebreeds)

If somebody brings a smirking "if you have to ask.." out of the blue - you could tell them what you really think or just go (Southern lady passive aggressive) with "well bless your heart".

In reply to OHSCrifle: Or this one (Southern lady passive aggressive) I heard the other day 'well I didn't shave my legs for this!!!!'

In reply to 759NRNG:

That's hilarious.

SVreX wrote: In reply to dean1484: Can I suggest something? If you are feeling insult by that phrase, I suggest you turn it around. Those Coke parties weren't that good anyway. Why care about hanging out with those azzhats? How 'bout if you use it in your head as a trigger to help you recognize who the jerks are, and know that you are better than them, and that their money does not make them better than you.

Well if it matters most of the ones I knew are now dead. They did so much dammage to them selfs many did not see 40

But I hear what you are saying. But an old dog and all that. I can work on that, though. TKS

759NRNG wrote: In reply to OHSCrifle: Or this one (Southern lady passive aggressive) I heard the other day 'well I didn't shave my legs for this!!!!'

Ohhhh I have to somehow integrate that into the staff meeting Monday.