Thing is, welfare is inextricably connected to the wealthy. It is the easiest way to keep the poor from uprising.
The middle class largely pays for it. The middle class just bends over and takes it and begs for more. And for some reason they are generally mad at the poor for having a few bucks they didn't earn rather than at the wealthy who have millions or billions they didn't earn.
Do you mean like mobs and pitchforks uprising or do you mean "The Man is keeping us down"?
This is America where it is said that if you work hard enough you can be anything and you to can be wealthy. It all comes down to ambition.
You can't say it can't happen because there's too many examples like Steve Jobs and that Microsoft guy plus jillions of other dot commers, etc.
And when you look at the wealthy and the taxes they pay, don't look at percentages, look at actual dollars. The upper income people pay a LOT of money in taxes. But it is soaked up by a massive amount of freeloaders.
If you're talking about working the system, there are more people working the system on the bottom end than the top. That's back to ambition too.
Really, nobody questioned whether Mitt Romney's dad created jobs. It was obvious he did. With Mitt, who knows? If he did, it was inadvertantly creating jobs while he squeezed existing companies that he obtained with borrowed money.
Otto Maddox wrote:
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I agree with all that. The problem isn't that rich guys are running for president. That has always been true. To me, the problem is that the wealthy are getting exponentially wealthier without really creating anything useful for the country. For every guy who got rich building a factory or whatever, there are a pile of guys who got far richer by leaching fees from everyone's 401K.
Does that not bother anyone?
It does. I have no real solution, though.
That said, i fail to see why this became political, specifically towards presidential candidates. Reeks of flounder.
carguy123 wrote:
bastomatic wrote:
carguy123 wrote:
So you'd like someone who hasn't proven they can do a good job be the President?
I'm not saying it applies to the current candidates, but a large measure of wealth does not necessarily equal having done a good job. Wealth and competence in this country can certainly be mutually exclusive things.
Yes, but poor & uneducated definitely AREN'T good qualifications for President.
As with all things, balance and moderation are good.
Why do you associate wealth with level of education/intelligence? I find that really insulting...
My only problem with wealthy people running for office is that they have the money and means to put others (who might or might not be more qualified, but not as well connected politically or as well funded) out of the race. I'd be less jaded about political elections if they were more elections than million-dollar smear campaigns.
And I'm done.
carguy123 wrote:
And when you look at the wealthy and the taxes they pay, don't look at percentages, look at actual dollars. The upper income people pay a LOT of money in taxes. But it is soaked up by a massive amount of freeloaders.
Why look at raw dollars rather than %?
I payed ~15% gross taxes last year (State, Fed, everything combined less Social security/medicare since that's technically still my money)
If Mitt Rommney's net worth was 20.6 million more this year that last I expect him to be taxed at a minimum of 15% but really a bit higher due to the nature of standard deductions representing a larger portion of my taxed income. If you tell most people he paid 2,000,000 in taxes it will sound all impressive but it's not enough since it's only 10%, he should pay a bit more than 3.1million. Leaving it as raw dollars is deceptive as big numbers sound impressive.
carguy123 wrote:
If you're talking about working the system, there are more people working the system on the bottom end than the top. That's back to ambition too.
Again look at it as percentages. Lets just asssume that general system gamming occurs at a rate of ~2% of the population. So lets assume the population is 350million. Popular statistics say that the 1% are out to get the 99% and that 50% of the nation pays no income tax so lets say that 50% of the nation is poor, 49% middle class, and 1% incredibly wealthy. That means that:
3.5 million people are Poor and Gaming the system
3.43 million are Middle class and gaming the system
70,000 of the 1% (.07 million) are.
I really doubt the actual percentage of poor, middle, upper class people who are willfully not obeying the rules is any different. Due to the relative size of each class of individuals however in a RAW numbers of poeple of course the poor abusers out number the rich.
I wonder though which group is costing the governement more money through deception?
Are the ~3.5 million poor netting more raw dollars from the governement that the .07 Million rich?
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
No.
I'm saying that the average citizen is FAR from someone i'd want to be at the head of the entire country. I would EXPECT that the president would NOT have average mental capacity and experience.
So why would i expect that they have a level of riches in line with that of the average citizen?
The word "average" should not be used to described any president when talking about his qualifications. I wouldn't expect the word "average" to be used when talking about a potential candidate's finances either.
Basically i'm saying: Find something else to complain about.
Thanks for answering.
Complain? I'm posting an article for the interest of GRM forum members. I'm curious what the various opinions will be. No complaint here.
btw - You're the sole reason I look at turbo charged MX-6's/Probes now. I just thought they were complete turds until you mentioned they can be boosted to the moon. Thanks for the hot tip BUTTFACE. 
carguy123 wrote:
Yes, but poor & uneducated definitely AREN'T good qualifications for President.
As with all things, balance and moderation are good.
Thanks for the info. I think someone poor could do the job assuming they had all the other qualifications. Uneducated? Yeah. Pass.
Btw - please post your work vid to youtube. I for one wouldn't mind seeing your conspiracy theorists imitations.
carguy123 wrote:
This is America where it is said that if you work hard enough you can be anything and you to can be wealthy. It all comes down to ambition.
You can't say it can't happen because there's too many examples like Steve Jobs and that Microsoft guy plus jillions of other dot commers, etc.
And when you look at the wealthy and the taxes they pay, don't look at percentages, look at actual dollars. The upper income people pay a LOT of money in taxes. But it is soaked up by a massive amount of freeloaders.
If you're talking about working the system, there are more people working the system on the bottom end than the top. That's back to ambition too.
Interesting article in The Economist about social mobility in America. It addresses your point about working your way up from a lower social class.
So far as who games the system more, lower or upper income folks? I haven't seen data on that. Do you have any to post? I feel like more wealthy people game the system by not paying their share of taxes via off shore accounts, creative accounting, etc. but I could be wrong.
Xceler8x wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
No.
I'm saying that the average citizen is FAR from someone i'd want to be at the head of the entire country. I would EXPECT that the president would NOT have average mental capacity and experience.
So why would i expect that they have a level of riches in line with that of the average citizen?
The word "average" should not be used to described any president when talking about his qualifications. I wouldn't expect the word "average" to be used when talking about a potential candidate's finances either.
Basically i'm saying: Find something else to complain about.
Thanks for answering.
Complain? I'm posting an article for the interest of GRM forum members. I'm curious what the various opinions will be. No complaint here.
btw - You're the sole reason I look at turbo charged MX-6's/Probes now. I just thought they were complete turds until you mentioned they can be boosted to the moon. Thanks for the hot tip BUTTFACE.
Sorry, the complaining comment wasn't directly specifically to you... just the general "bring down the man" type thing.
FWIW, the 2nd gen V6s respond very well to boost as well. Over 300whp is easily done with 10psi or less, and they'll take it for years with a good tune. 
Or just buy mine. There's a certain 89 Colt GT i have my eye on.
Ever not reported purchases through Amazon that you didn't pay state sales tax on?
You're gaming the system.
Everybody does it. We get mad at rich people because when they do it the numbers are bigger.
I can promise you one thing: money does NOT automatically convey common sense, intelligence, empathy or any of the other qualities that make an effective leader.
