Landlord turns tables on abortion protesters

In reply to Curmudgeon:

In 1960, Mary Calderone (who was then the Medical Director of Planned Parenthood), wrote in the American Journal of Health that 90% of illegal abortions were performed by physicians.

Kind of changes the picture of a "back alley abortion", doesn't it?

Knowing they did happen, how many women died?

According to the U.S. Bureau of Vital Statistics, about 39 women died from illegal abortions in 1972. No idea if these were in back alleys or in doctor's offices.

There are no good current US statistics. Medical coding rules require that deaths due to medical and surgical treatment must be reported under the complication of the procedure (embolism, for example) and not under the condition for treatment (elective abortion). However, there are hundreds of known cases of abortion-related deaths annually. There are now 1.5 million abortions per year in the US.

Before abortion was legal abortion-related deaths were tracked because they were illegal.

Like I said, I'd just like the ability to have honest discussions that include ALL the information. We can't.

Sorry for the flounder. Lesley, I agree with your post about Mr. Stave, and most everything you have said here. Thanks for sharing.

SVreX wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: Exactly as Lesley says. It takes two to tango, which IMHO means the father should have a say, BUT: he damn well better be ready to shoulder his responsibilities once that child is born. To say 'she can't have an abortion because I am the dad and I say so' but then welsh on helping raise the kid is just shi++y.

I agree. But we both know it is much more common for a man to pressure a woman and say, "Do the right thing and take care of the problem". Significantly shi++ier, and vastly more common. BTW- women still die getting abortions.

I have a feeling that what you're talking about doesn't happen very often, on both counts.

Wow, a post about abortion elicited strong reactions from both sides. What a surprise!

rotard wrote: I have a feeling that what you're talking about doesn't happen very often, on both counts.

64% of American women who received abortions felt pressured to do so by others according to this study by the International Medical Journal for Experimental and Clinical Research.

Medical Science Monitor Study link

Not that it matters. You're gonna believe what you want to, whether or not it is true.

But I don't really care about the statistics.

I did it. I did it because I could, and I wanted to get laid. Very badly. There's a lot of disrespectful things I would have done to get laid and have the freedom to get laid as much as I wanted without the responsibility of taking care of a child. Perhaps you are a more decent man than I. Perhaps I am the only scum man on the planet.

I doubt it.

approve of abortion or hate it... what the landlord did was positively brilliant.

Somebody brought up Westboro.. maybe all the families they protested against should go there and protest them?

One thing I have noticed about ALL of us here is we are very hard-headed and adament about our opinions. Not that it's a bad thing as we are all entitled to our opinions. But in my opinion you're missing Lesley's point. It is about protesting the protester. These days, protesters no longer take there protest to the source/subject they are protesting but to what I prefer to call the innocents, like the families and/or friends. Instead of protesting the clinic they are harrasing the landowners family, young children that don't understand why. Someone here mentioned Westboro, they protest military funerals against gays, now that doesn't make a lot of sense to me since you shouldn't be gay in the military (at least openly) and the soldier most likely wasn't gay and didn't die defending gays. What does a funeral for a soldier have to do with gays anyway? Other than press coverage that is. Same philosophy. No matter what your opinion on the subject of abortion is, the protestors made it personal by harrasing the kids of the landowner of the clinic, not the operator of the clinic. No matter my opinion on the subject, I applaud the way the landowner is protecting his family by turning it around and using their tactics back on them. Disagreements and/or protests should be directed at the offender and not their uninvolved family and friends. After all, if you have a problem with me or something I did or am doing then bring it to me. You go after my kids for something I did then I'll do something more drastic back but it won't involve your family except maybe their grieving. As I'm sure many of you would do too. This guy didn't resort to that and only turned around their tactics back on them.

agreed.. we got too caught up in the abortion debate.. ignore it was abortion and just admire the guy trying to keep his family out of it.

I personally don't like abortion, wish women didn't have them but never felt the need to act out and force my belief on others. There's definitely a point at which people cross a line and take it too far. This guy has every right to protect his family and if turning the tables on the extremist get results then so be it.

I didn't realize late term abortions were still legal. Thats just terrible. You can't figure out sooner you want to have an abortion?

SVreX wrote:

Taiden wrote: No man has the right to regulate what a woman wants to do with/to/around/for her uterus.

But the Congresses who have written every law at every level of government in the history of this country are grossly predominantly composed of men, therefore men DO regulate this.

Which is why the regulations need to allow options for individual decisions. If abortions remain legal, those who disapprove may always choose to not have one, while those who decide it is the right choice for them can obtain one safely. In BOTH cases, legality leaves the choice in the hands of the woman, pro or con.

And I will say, while I am pro-choice, I am anti- abortion, particularly late-term. I would always rather see other options pursued - but I will never agree that the option to terminate should be denied.

In reply to Duke:

On a way lighter note, I just saw I Miata in Newark that was the same color as yours. You weren't on Elkton road about a half hour ago, were you?

I'm genuinely impressed that we can keep a discussion, on the internet, about abortion civil.

For those who don't think abortion is wrong, here is a picture of it --

Hi, Bryan! No, it wasn't my car, but I'll keep an eye out for another one.

And yeah, it's a good crowd here, for the most part.

pinchvalve wrote: Wow, a post about abortion elicited strong reactions from both sides. What a surprise!

Actually it's not a post about abortion, it's a post about the tactics some protestors were using. It just so happens they were protesting about an abortion clinic.

I'm surprised how few posts were actually on topic.

I just don't see how its any of my business. I don't walk around telling random parents on the street how to raise their kids, and I certainly have no problems with abortions. For that matter, I don't have a problem with many things that society considers "evil." I can't make abortion a moral issue because my morals are different from the billions of other humans on the planet, and I can't make it a legal issue because, well, its not illegal... and I'm not law enforcement anyway.

This stands true for anyone who opposes someone else's actions based on their OWN morals. Chill out. You take care of you, let everyone else take care of themselves. Isn't that part of the whole "judge not lest ye be judged" kinda thing, or the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"

Now if a woman came and asked me my opinion on whether or not she personally should get an abortion, I would help her talk through the pros and cons as a friend and counselor, but I don't go around picketing my own personal morals in an attempt to guilt-trip people into doing it my way. Most of those people are shallow, unenlightened, and scared because they've let the world's fear creep in on them. They've forgotten how to love themselves and others, so they try to make others in the image of themselves. That way they have like-minded people surrounding them without having to look truth in the face, or look at their own flaws. They just try to make everyone else like them, and when they fail at that task they blame those heathenly others for what's wrong in the world.

That's just simple Psychology of Society 101. If its not your child, its not your choice. Period.

I'm pro-choice until I have to pay for it.

Landlord is just awesome.

ThePhranc wrote: I'm pro-choice until I have to pay for it. Landlord is just awesome.

You pay for a lot of abortions.

carguy123 wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: Wow, a post about abortion elicited strong reactions from both sides. What a surprise!

Actually it's not a post about abortion, it's a post about the tactics some protestors were using. It just so happens they were protesting about an abortion clinic. I'm surprised how few posts were actually on topic.

well.. it got derailed quick by somebody

MG Bryan wrote:

ThePhranc wrote: I'm pro-choice until I have to pay for it. Landlord is just awesome.

You pay for a lot of abortions.

Cheaper than paying for a lot of unwanted kids..

http://www.welfareinfo.org/

I'm intentionally not going to say how I feel about the issue of abortion, but my feelings are VERY strong, and off topic.
The topic of how the landlord handled the situation was GREAT!! I'm all for protesting, it's a freedom we have here in this country. He used that in the best way possible. Those morons should be ashamed of themselves for taunting innocent children!
And, while it appears he's all for abortion, I don't know that a landlord could deny renting his property to someone because of what they intended to use it for, as long as it was legal.

SVreX wrote:

rotard wrote: I have a feeling that what you're talking about doesn't happen very often, on both counts.

64% of American women who received abortions felt pressured to do so by others according to this study by the International Medical Journal for Experimental and Clinical Research. Medical Science Monitor Study link Not that it matters. You're gonna believe what you want to, whether or not it is true. But I don't really care about the statistics. I did it. I did it because I could, and I wanted to get laid. Very badly. There's a lot of disrespectful things I would have done to get laid and have the freedom to get laid as much as I wanted without the responsibility of taking care of a child. Perhaps you are a more decent man than I. Perhaps I am the only scum man on the planet. I doubt it.

I never understand statistics like that. What percentage of women who got abortions got them BECAUSE they were pressured would be a bit more useful to me.

Of course, i analyze data for 90% of my job at work, so i'm probably just being anal retentive again.

If you're mature enough to have sex, you're mature enough to make that decision. If you can't make the decision on your own and succumb to pressure, or are overwhelmed by pressure, then maybe you should have not taken the chance in the first place.

I apologize in advance for a potentially unpopular view.

Anyways, the landlord is winning!

DrBoost wrote: And, while it appears he's all for abortion, I don't know that a landlord could deny renting his property to someone because of what they intended to use it for, as long as it was legal.

that is a sticking point. Even if he were against it.. as long as it is a legal business, the doctor keeps it in good repair, and is ontime with his rent.. I am not sure he would have a choice until the lease runs out

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I never understand statistics like that. What percentage of women who got abortions got them BECAUSE they were pressured would be a bit more useful to me. Of course, i analyze data for 90% of my job at work, so i'm probably just being anal retentive again. If you're mature enough to have sex, you're mature enough to make that decision. If you can't make the decision on your own and succumb to pressure, or are overwhelmed by pressure, then maybe you should have not taken the chance in the first place. I apologize in advance for a potentially unpopular view. Anyways, the landlord is winning!

Unplanned pregnancies are a result of two peoples' foolishness, but the burden is usually shouldered more heavily by the woman. She has to give birth to the baby, and in the case of a separated couple, she is usually responsible for its upbringing for the rest of the child's life. The male may have to pay child support, but does it compare to the competitive disadvantage that the female will face due to family obligations? Culturally, women are still the family's primary caretakers.

Meh. I posted something. But I've decided to remove it. Not because it was inflamatory, I just don't think this topic is going to change anyone's minds and I don't need to get dragged into an argument.

I am going to go start VS thread now, and I dare anyone to say something to me about it.

MG Bryan wrote:

ThePhranc wrote: I'm pro-choice until I have to pay for it. Landlord is just awesome.

You pay for a lot of abortions.

Oh I know. Thats why all public funding needs to end yesterday.