Learn Me .... Drop in SCCA formula car racing

How to write this question briefly ?

The powers-to-be in SCCA club racing are trying to figure out why there has been such a steep decline in formula car racing at their road racing events.  We are talking about classes such as Formula Continental (F2000).   A few years ago there were fairly large fields, notwthey are almost non-existent.  (e.g. at the June Sprints in 2000 there were like 65 cars in the starting field, last year maybe a handful.)

I've been involved in FC for a long time, so i think my personal bias clouds objective thought.  I see the class as the fastest way to go super fast for less money than anything else that can turn the same lap times.  For instance 1:25 at Road Atlanta.

On the otherhand GRM has a large group of automotive junkies and they have proven to be willing to share their thoughts.  Plus the GRM population is most probably a younger demographic.   

Any opinions out there?    

I'm not sure if this is a large contributing factor, but going back 4 or 5 years I was witnessing ridiculous carnage  with these cars. It seemed like the start of every race would result in multiple wrecks and guys running over each other. I commented on this to a steward and he agreed it seemed to be a trend. I know I wouldn't want to be in a group where I might not even make it to start finish before I was wrecked.

Was that the January Sebring race?    At one of those races i told the grid people i was electing to start at the rear...

I looked back thru my records, I think my last 75 races had no DNFs.  Maybe because I wasn't close enough to the front. 

OK, i'm putting one check mark down for "perceived carnage".

I race in the Northeast Division. That was at every race I attended.

I saw the trend Don mentions begining 30 years ago. It certainly is some part of the problem. I think the maintanance issues with hard engine mounts and 4 cylinder shakers contributes as well, but the biggest issue IMHO is that the cars have been accepted into "vintage" racing, and that balances out the carnage to chase potential entries away from SCCA. Add that to the expense of competitive Pinto engines and lack of good new chassis. All 93 Swift DB6s are over a quarter century old. The newer Pro cars are faster than the Pinto cars too, so the class became muddled.

Because people discovered you could have more fun for less money at events like Chump, Lucky Dog and LeMons without joining an old boys club.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

To add to this example, to get a new roller FF is something like $80K! Then add the competitive Honda engine, then youre close to $100k! I'd kill for a Swift DB6 or even a DB1 and be able to go race, but i want to be competitive. The class i see with a massive car count is SRF. Theyre decently cheap to get in. 

Do you still have to spend a bunch of money to join the club before you get the cryptic rulebook to follow for building the car that some jerk is going to fail on tech repeatedly until he thinks you have spent enough money to be allowed on the one course within 5 hours of you that only has 4 events a year on weekends you're always busy so you can get smugly talked down on by some IT guy who bought a car for his midlife crisis before he does something stupid and wrecks you?  Because if it's still like that then I might have some ideas.

I'm not an SCCA racer, nor have I followed FC at all.  I've kinda kept up with FV as I still have dreams of owning one some day when funds allow. 

Does the drop in FC counts correlate with the increase in F4 participation?  Seems like they are equal in performance and, based on Duke's post, close to the same in price.  I know there are a bunch of "arrive and drive" options for F4 which might compete at a lower cost against FC.

Does the drop compare to other formula or production SCCA classes?  I know some of the classes are always stronger (Spec Pinata), but from watching runoffs, all the classes seem a little smaller these days. 

-Rob

I've only been an autocrosser for 7 years now so I'm not up on all the other permutations for SCCA road racing.  In fact I was today years old when I learned that FC was a thing.

It's called the Secret Car Club of America for a reason.

I think part of the problem is that there is no "casual" use of a formula car. I can bring pretty much any full-on race car that's not and open wheeler to most organizations for an HPDE or Time Trials event, but formula cars are (AFAIK) pretty much SCCA only.

So I can grab something like a Craftsman truck and go to a regular trackday, but I can't run my slow-as-molasses FST in anything that isn't a competitive environment, basically minimum TT with SCCA.

And that's before we get to any of the jalopy racing series.

So basically, unless your kid wants to run Indycar or something, the more casual user of race cars is better served either with a production based car or at least something that's not an open wheel car.

Interesting subject.  I missunderstood the title, I expected to read something about arrive and drive single seater based in the 'drop in'  LOL.

I think there are two main reasons. First, as has been stated, is the perception of safety and frequency of accidents  There is no doubt that an accident in a single seater has a great possibility of physical harm to the driver.  The second is probably the perceived cost of entry.

Back in the 80's there was a series in the UK called 'Formula First'.  It was a spec series a bit like an open wheel 'Spec Racer' over here.  With cars made by VanDiemen using transverse Ford Escort FWD engine and trans with a simple space frame construction.  There's a couple of pics below.  These cars cost about the same as a new Fiesta road car, so in todays money that's say $25K thinking of the MSRP of a Fiesta ST.  If someone could do the same today, with an out the door price, ready to roll around $30K USD I bet it would be popular.  Formula First produced massive entries, like 30 plus cars at every event with lots and lots of action up and down the grid.  The cars were later revised with sleeker, less attractive bodywork, and are still running in a Scandinavian single make championship 35 years later.  Strong, simple and fun.

I've never run an open wheel car, and watching them get dragged back to the paddock with suspension pointed every direction except the correct one make me confident that I'll continue not running them.  

Karting is cheaper and fast.

I've never been in a driver's meeting involving open wheel guys and thought, "What a bunch of down to earth, ego free sweet hearts."

How much money are you going to spend on some ancient British stuff, when you can hit the track in a nice little sedan for less money, more easily? (I know FF has a Honda option now.)

The average size of a human being keeps increasing, and the cockpit of an open wheeler doesn't.

I can roll the windows up in my sedan and leave it in a snowbank all winter.

Problem is that F500 has the same problems of decline in numbers, despite more affordable cars (<$30k new).

There was some warring over the 600cc motorcycle engines being allowed (people who want to stick with the 2 stroke CVT) and it came down to future appeal of the class vs keeping the cheaper established guys running. No compromise is going to make everyone happy there.

The other thing is that some of the frontline car builders for the class are retiring. 

The only thing is, I see purpose built cars becoming more and more of a necessity for the sport. Modern safety systems add a lot of cost and complexity and may actually be detrimental.

I wonder how cheaply a safe modern composite tub could be produced at a reasonable scale. Power sports engines have been getting pretty good as well.

Everyone is making good points.

Keep up the response.

Being an FC driver, I have grown to only want to drive a purpose built race car without the compromises.  But, then i was trailering cars to autocrosses in the 70's chasing FTDs.   

One good point many stated is the multi domain Formats available to doorslammers.  Track Nights, HPDE, Track Days. etc.

Keep posting.  Appreciate the input from the outside.

I spend lots of time and money at the track and on the few race cars we have.  I don't even consider an open wheel car for the exact list of reasons provided by bearmtn and BoxheadTim.  I can use my production based cars so much more than any open wheel. 

That is a biggie. Places to run. An scca race weekend is not the cheapest way to get seat time, especially if you add schools, licenses, and so on.

Formula car track day is hard to find. 

Couple that with harder to find parts and the fact that safety has changed since the early 90s...

In reply to Apexcarver :

One of the very positive side effects of the recent upswing in Time Trials interest is that a lot of SCCA regions now allow you to run formula cars in Time Trials. That tends to give you more seat time for similar money at least, and does away with the race school part, too.

But other than that, well, you better have another track car.

What advantage does a slow Formula car have over a 125 KZ shifter kart?

chaparral said:

What advantage does a slow Formula car have over a 125 KZ shifter kart?

Safety is a cage or enclosure around you instead of being on the same safety level as a motorcyclist with the added fun of requiring a piece of equipment to prevent what you are driving from breaking your ribs. 

Higher speeds, bigger tracks (though they do run shifters on some big tracks)

Streetwiseguy said:

How much money are you going to spend on some ancient British stuff, when you can hit the track in a nice little sedan for less money, more easily? (I know FF has a Honda option now.)

 

Zero, I wasn't suggesting ancient British stuff, I was suggesting a similar concept.  Simple spaceframe single seater using an as is, off the production line transverse engine, trans and electronics.  No reason you couldn't use off the shell uprights/knuckles too.  IF you have a relationship with an OEM, getting a simplified ECU that deletes unneeded functions is easily possible.  

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Except for the open wheel part you just described SCCA Spec Racer. Before Spec Racer (a long time ago now) most of those entries would have been FF or FV.

Adrian_Thompson said:

Streetwiseguy said:

How much money are you going to spend on some ancient British stuff, when you can hit the track in a nice little sedan for less money, more easily? (I know FF has a Honda option now.)

 

Zero, I wasn't suggesting ancient British stuff, I was suggesting a similar concept.  Simple spaceframe single seater using an as is, off the production line transverse engine, trans and electronics.  No reason you couldn't use off the shell uprights/knuckles too.  IF you have a relationship with an OEM, getting a simplified ECU that deletes unneeded functions is easily possible.  

Sure, but that is how I see them, and I am pretty involved with racing.  Of course, there was a guy with a Hayabusa powered sports racer who ran with the FFs and Continentals and Mazda's and kicked hell out of them all.  That struck me as a reasonable plan...until I found out what the car cost.

Could it be that people are just not participating in a lot of things?  It seems that there are fewer and fewer participants in everything especially car related.  I see fewer people bicycling, bowling or working out at the gym... I guess they're all home playing video games?