I have heard complaints on those biometric safes not being 100% reliable. Kinda like my Galaxy S7. Yeah, it might eventually recognize my fingerprint, but it might take 3 tries to get there. They do make some smaller safes that have finger grooves and buttons, so you would like push fingers 1 and 3, then 2, or something like that. All mechanical.
Brian, that is a pistol that Lee is showing. See the pistol receiver extension? Not-a-SBR.
Keith Tanner said:Now, if you're stalking someone in your house for the thrill of the hunt instead of just trying to get them the berkeley out, then by all means go with something stealthy.
In reply to pheller :
What exactly does that mean?
In reply to Justjim75 :
Let it go, that conversation will only derail the thread.
In Canada, they are very strict about handgun and ammo storage. Basically, the handguns have to be trigger locked and in a safe and the ammo stored separately. Not very affective for home defense, right? Also, handguns are only good at stopping an intruder if you are A) a really good shot B) Remain really calm while knowing an intruder is in your house. Our solution, and I think it's the best one, is a Benelli Supernova Tactical Shotgun. We are allowed to keep this shotgun anywhere we want and it's short enough to fit in a drawer or between mattresses or whatever. Here's the best part: The first shell is actually a dog training shell, with all the POW but without any pellets. The rest of the shells are full on buckshot. That way, if somebody somehow gets ahold of the weapon and fires it, nobody gets hurt. And if an intruder keeps coming at you after you fire the first round, a quick chick chick and you're ready for action-and only need to fire in the general direction of them to hit them. The Police have an official stance that has been stated by others already, but get any of them alone and they will tell you to make sure you shoot the intruder in the front and inside the house
In reply to EastCoastMojo :
I really dont get it tho
I'm not going to read this whole thread, I've read enough gun threads here to know what's going on. What I am going to do is mention an oddball firearm that probably hasn't been brought up yet. It also comes with stipulations, like needing to find a class 3 dealer and pass an ATF background check though, neither of which has is very difficult.
The Serbu SuperShorty, Mossberg maverick 88 based, Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 based available.
16"over all length, pump action(available), 3 round capacity 12 gauge. The compact ease of use of a pistol, with the spread and wall penetration of a shotgun.
I don't own one, yet, but I have used one before, and think it to be a far better home defense option than the 45 I have on the way to the gun cabinet. With a retail price (last I looked) around $1050, not super expensive compared to a quality handgun or shotgun. Especially when you see is an AOW, so only a $5 tax stamp needed.
I heartily agree with the "ounce of prevention" suggestions of conducting a security assessment on your house and spending the money that would've been earmarked for a firearm on stuff that makes it harder for baddies to get in your house in the first place.
Then, I'd start looking for local firing ranges with firearm safety courses and seeing how you feel after some instruction and a long discussion with the spouse.
In reply to RevRico :
$1100 purchase price, 6 months plus wait for the tax stamp and you get 3 rounds?
$300-$500 for name brand 9mm
2 mags 15 to 17 round capacity (inuded)
Gun lock (included)
Holster (Unkle Mike's IWB) $15
Small lockbox or quick access safe $20-$200
CCW permit $20-$?
Weapon light $50-$100
That puts the Serbu by itself the same as all In price for a normal handgun and everything you would need for home and personal defense. Not to mention the Serbu requires 2 hands to operate, and isnt easy to operate accurately
Unless you were joking, in that case LOL!
The Shockwave I pasted earlier is a bit over three bills and does everything that Serbu does and doesn't require a tax stamp or half year wait.
In reply to Justjim75 :
It sounds like you've never tried to fire a pistol in a high stress situation. Half asleep with adrenaline coursing through your veins is a Hell of a lot different than hanging out at the range. Unless you have a live band playing at the range while you practice, potentially shooting back at you.
Pistols are great to carry for defense, but frankly I think they're downright dangerous for home defense. No spread, plenty of energy to go right through walls or ceilings when you miss, semiautomatic are prone to jamming at just the wrong time.
I suggested the Serbu if you're really hung up on it being a pistol. A 45/410 would be also a good choice if you want to keep to a small form factor, and as a revolver, it won't jam on you when you need it most.
I won't use my AK for home defense, despite some people believing it's all about how much lead you can get into a door shaped hole in the quickest period of time. It's not home wielding friendly. Sure, you can empty the 75 round drum in seconds, but accuracy is a bust, it's large, and will do a Hell of a lot of collateral damage with every shot that misses. The only thing it has going for it is every time I empty the drum at home, cops show up quicker than they would to a burglary call.
I keep a 45 (redacted) for home defense, and it's only there to let me get to my gun cabinet where the shotguns live. When I get a Serbu or 45/410, the Ruger will return to the cabinet. Of course I also have a gravel driveway and a paranoid dog, so I can get to the gun safe before anybody busts the window on the front door and opens the dead bolt. The one nice thing about my house starting life as a 1950s hunting cabin is that the entire first floor is cinder block without many windows, so I don't have to worry about a miss getting through to the neighbors house.
My other big reason for suggesting the short barrel shotgun, as well as the 45/410, is that I have a toddler in the house. If something goes wrong and there is a struggle, I don't want to worry about a shot going through the 7 foot ceiling into her room. A pistol will, no question. A light load in a short barrel shotgun won't put her at nearly as much of a risk.
There's also the FHN 5.7mag, if you're concerned about how many rounds you have. Holds 20+1 and will tear through a bullet proof vest like it's a pillow.
In reply to Dr. Hess :
And also has limited capacity, requires 2 hands, huge recoil, and takes years to reload.
Shotguns are great, I have two, but it's just not a good choice for a new shooters first home defense gun.
Justjim75 said:In reply to Dr. Hess :
And also has limited capacity, requires 2 hands, huge recoil, and takes years to reload.
Shotguns are great, I have two, but it's just not a good choice for a new shooters first home defense gun.
You need to take a few classes. No one breaking into your house is going to care how tacti-cool your piece is. A shotgun really is the best home defense weapon, the shorter the barrel the better. Just point and shoot, no accuracy required, no need to fumble with magazines, slap a flashlight on if you really need to, and far lesser risks of penetration causing problems.
If you don't have both hands on your gun regardless of the type of firearm, how accurate do you expect to be anyway?
This sounds more like you want a new pistol and need a way to sell the idea to someone in the house.
In reply to RevRico :
"I think pistols are downright dangerous for home defense"
"I keep a 45 for home defense"
"Pistols have no spread"
Unless your hallway is 30+ feet long, we've established that shotguns don't really either in a house. Assuming the Serbu has significantly more spread than say a Shockwave mentioned above, your 3 shells have considerably less power due to being designed for at least another foot of barrel. Speaking of which, you better hit with the first shot because all that powder that doesn't burn in the barrel makes a nice fireball to ruin any chance of seeing where to put the other 2/3 of your ammo.
I shoot a lot, I'm an info junky about the things I'm interested in (guns, cars, watches) and if you look at real world stats, a shotgun, shot pistol, or NFA super midget novelty piece to show off at the range are at several disadvantages to a common semi auto handgun in a house.
... so, I had hot dogs for lunch...
In reply to NordicSaab :
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once, and I agree. This thread is done. Thanks for playing everyone.
RevRico said:Justjim75 said:In reply to Dr. Hess :
And also has limited capacity, requires 2 hands, huge recoil, and takes years to reload.
Shotguns are great, I have two, but it's just not a good choice for a new shooters first home defense gun.
You need to take a few classes. No one breaking into your house is going to care how tacti-cool your piece is. A shotgun really is the best home defense weapon, the shorter the barrel the better. Just point and shoot, no accuracy required, no need to fumble with magazines, slap a flashlight on if you really need to, and far lesser risks of penetration causing problems.
If you don't have both hands on your gun regardless of the type of firearm, how accurate do you expect to be anyway?
This sounds more like you want a new pistol and need a way to sell the idea to someone in the house.
Shotguns need to be aimed like anything else, the power of them is getting as much as the shot column in one place as possible. One 00 buck is pretty anemic compared to pretty much everything and it doesnt hold its velocity for long. It absolutely wont be a huge spread in any home defence situation, an inch a yard is considered pretty normal for a cylinder bore.
Dont get me wrong, i love shotguns although my primary useage is against bear and its loaded with slugs, when it is loaded with buck its loaded with centurions with one huge ball and some smaller ones but....a pistol grip shotgun is the last thing i would recommend to someone who has little experience with guns.
The Serbu is awesome too but even worse for a first time gun owner. It does spread faster because of its very short barrel but it also loses a lot of velocity, down to somewhere around 950fps from what i remember. That means that if it did spread too much you have a 60gr 950fps at the muzzle projectile, which is very similiar to a 32acp, you would want as many of those as possible in a small area for effectiveness.
I would love a serbu for a woods gun and truck gun, loaded with slugs it would be great but not at all for the OPs usage
The good thing about home defense is that even with everyone’s preparation, 99.99% will never have to use it. But, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be prepared as you just might be that 0.01%.
Any preparation is is better than none. Doing whatever you can to keep the bad guys out is where I would spend most of my time and energy. Keep them out and avoid the confrontation. Make it difficult to get in and give yourself some additional time to put your plan into action. Get everyone to a predetermined safe place and begin whatever plan you have to confront the intruder.
We just built a new house and home security was paramount in our plans/designs/budget. We have alarms on every door and window which are hard-wired, not just “peel-and-stick” sensors. The alarm itself has a cellular uplink, so no wires can be cut to deactivate/disarm the system. The control panel is very well hidden and inaccessible to anyone but myself. There are 6 outside cameras and 8 double head spotlights all around the perimeter of the house. The front door has a lock, a dead bolt and top/bottom barrel bolts. The other entry doors which are exterior “French doors”, have built-in top and bottom jamb locks and the interior handles are chained together. All doors have security bars put on at night. It might sound paranoid, but after you do it a few times, checking everything each night becomes part of the ritual before heading to bed. All total, the cost is probably around $3000 for the security and piece of mind. It was a big expense, but when included in the build costs of the house and considering the added value upon resale, it isn’t too bad. We did not build a “safe room” like I’ve seen others do, I simply gave us time to get ready for a confrontation should it ever get to that point. She knows what to do and where to go when the alarm goes off. I grab the Public Defender(410/45LC) pistol, go look at the alarm screen to see where the intruder got into the house and get ready.
Thats our safety plan plan which I hope to never have to put into action.
In reply to lotusseven7 :
$3k sounds like a bargain for all of that. Especially when you consider the cost of appliances for a new house. Great to hear, thanks!
RevRico said:Unless you have a live band playing at the range while you practice, potentially shooting back at you.
I just want to say that's a hell of a live show. Talk about a high energy performance that keeps the audience on the edge of their seats.
jharry3 said:thatsnowinnebago said:jharry3 said:GTXVette said:I saw you were given the best answer about 4 posts in, A shotgun is what you want, You are new to Wepons and saying ACCURACY IN CLOSE QTRS. ISN'T AS IMPORTANT ,Is nuts. I would rather fill the doorway with lead than miss for a thousand reasons that come up.
At 20 feet your hand would just about cover up a hole a shotgun charge pattern would make in a paper target or whomever.
Here's some photos of buckshot patterns for the curious. I shot these with low-recoil 00 buckshot from an 18.5" barrel with a cylinder choke. The first photo is from 7 and 20 yards. The 4 black squares are from 7 yards, and the center mass is from 20 yards.
7 yards = 21 feet. Your hand would go over the group, like I said.
Yeah, exactly. I was trying to reinforce your point with photos 
This thread has pretty much ran its course, but I follow Remington on FB, and just saw this. Similar to the pump Tac-14 based on the 870 mentioned a few times in this thread, they now have a semi auto version they're calling the Tac-13 based off a V3. Whatever the heck a V3 is? My Remington semi-auto scatter gun knowledge doesn't go much past the 11-87.
It's neat, but I don't have a lot of faith in quality or reliability of Freedom Group era Remington products.
FIRST LOOK: The Non-NFA, Semi-Auto Remington V3 Tac-13 Is Here!
5 round capacity and 26.5" OAL.
NordicSaab said:... so, I had hot dogs for lunch...
I just had a Nathan’s hot dog with leftover egg-salad and it was worthy of its own thread.
In reply to RevRico :
Not sayin. Just sayin. 
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