Learn me: Lead toxicity

Topic came up at work, and the question came up about how long lead stays in the body after exposure.

I couldn't find anything useful online. Is it basically a permanent accumulation or does it, in fact, get reduced over time?

Moving to Flint?

this may have some answers:

half life in the blood of around 28 days, but can accumulate in bones it says

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=9

What is the lead and what is the exposure route? Makes a difference, a huge difference in fact.

Many municipal water systems have the same issue, Flint just got a lot of political attention. Most areas in Flint are within limits, but the damage happened basically due to "that ain't my job" mentality.

Lead does get flushed from the body. Many organs can recover from it. The nervous system is permanently affected.

pilotbraden wrote: The nervous system is permanently affected.

In a major and horrific way.

If I recall correctly the age of the affected person also matters, it's a greater hazard for children than adults.

foxtrapper wrote: What is the lead and what is the exposure route? Makes a difference, a huge difference in fact.

Lead dust in the air at an indoor firing range, so inhaled non-organic lead.

I've heard that hot lead can be particularly dangerous.

The EPA may have some guidelines on their website. I had to take a multi day class through the EPA because the company I worked for did projects on houses that were built before the lead paint ban. It's been a couple years and I don't remember specific PPMs but it was very low and the protocols for doing a project on a house where lead paint was detected was intense and very strict. And the fines for not following the protocol were very high.

Knurled wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: What is the lead and what is the exposure route? Makes a difference, a huge difference in fact.

Lead dust in the air at an indoor firing range, so inhaled non-organic lead.

Is there an organic lead?

In reply to spitfirebill:

Tetraethyl lead, the stuff that they used to put in gasoline, is an organic lead compound.

Ever since that conversation, I've learned a lot about lead and a lot of what I learned is that there is more to learn than I have time to learn.

The EPA pages I visited regarding lead toxicity/bioaccumulation said nothing about the mechanisms with which lead is removed from the body. I know from reading about HF poisoning and radium poisoning that once something gets in your bones, it is very VERY hard to get it back out, but I wasn't sure about anything else or how much of a problem the lead poses once entrenched in your bones. (Radium, obviously, is a bad thing to have as part of your bone structure. Google "phossy jaw" but don't image search)

stuart in mn wrote: If I recall correctly the age of the affected person also matters, it's a greater hazard for children than adults.

And the behavior and health effects are intense. I had a kid with lead poisoning in the home i worked at. Intense stuff.

1988RedT2 wrote: I've heard that hot lead can be particularly dangerous.

Especially near water.

Now, fast moving lead, that's some seriously dangerous stuff. That will kill you fast, like in seconds or potentially instantaneously.

Kids should not be near lead in aerosolized form. And certainly not in drinking water or food. Adults, not so much danger. Some people are more sensitive to it than others. Lead paint can be some really bad stuff, especially for kids if someone is removing it without all the proper stuff. But if it is stuck on the wall, it isn't much of a problem.

Peanut butter has a toxin in it that will kill you dead. Toast causes cancer. Maybe only in California. Dihydrogen Monoxide can kill you in quantities as low as a few milliliters. A half cup is certainly enough to kill you in about 3 minutes. Well, you'd be technically dead in 10 minutes, but after 3 minutes, what they might revive won't be worth much. Bad stuff.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

I never trusted peanut butter.

Dr. Hess wrote: Peanut butter has a toxin in it that will kill you dead. Toast causes cancer. Maybe only in California. Dihydrogen Monoxide can kill you in quantities as low as a few milliliters. A half cup is certainly enough to kill you in about 3 minutes. Well, you'd be technically dead in 10 minutes, but after 3 minutes, what they might revive won't be worth much. Bad stuff.

And one of the guys a co-worker goes shooting with has been being treated for lead poisoning and wears a facemask at the range they go to in order to avoid breathing in any errant lead dust, which is what brought on the topic of how long lead stays in the body once it gets in there.

He handloads, but he only uses jacketed bullets and wears latex gloves while doing the loading anyway, but there's still a lead core, and, well, one doesn't think about medical implications of anything until you see its effects on yourself or someone else...

In any event, I made a snarky comment about maybe this is why old gun enthusiasts tend to be so derpy, but then I realized, well maybe there's actually a grain of truth to that, like the link to violent crime and TEL in motor fuels.

I'm now rethinking my childhood weekends spent reloading shotgun shells. Lead shot and bismuth. So many thousands of rounds. Could explain a few things. I need to stop thinking.

I spent a lot of time as a kid collecting wheel weights to melt down and cast as sinkers.

My elementary school had a rifle range under the first grade classrooms. Draw your own conclusions.

Knurled wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: What is the lead and what is the exposure route? Makes a difference, a huge difference in fact.

Lead dust in the air at an indoor firing range, so inhaled non-organic lead.

Ug. That's one of the ones we're dealing with, with regards to standards, impacts and regulations.

If the facility is well ventilated and properly ventilated, it's really not much of an issue as an indoor shooter. You're not there very often or very long, even if you're enthusiastic about your shooting. But, if the place is poorly ventilated, and especially if you work there day in and day out, you're going to start showing high levels of lead in your blood.

But a well ventilated indoor range is just blowing the lead dust out of the building and onto the area around the exhaust. Yes, "dilution is the solution". But if there are neighbors close by... We have seen were neighbors do indeed have high levels of lead in their blood. There is also the matter of deposition of the lead dust. Sure it's tiny, and yes it takes time to build up to any sort of appriciable levels. But when a range has been there for years on end, it can indeed happen. When it's on the windowsill of a neighboring house, especially a neighbor with kids, and they detect the lead, things get zesty.

I do know a few indoor ranges that are very good. Draw through ventilation away from the shooters, filtered exhaust to capture the dust (at least in theory). But even they do indeed have lead buildup on surfaces the shooters contact (bench, etc), and their workers can have elevated lead levels.

There is lead in primer compounds, lead styphnate, which is where most of the air-borne lead at shooting ranges comes from. That danger is very low at outdoor ranges. Bullet casters who handle lots of lead and melt-and-flux it constantly, do not seem to suffer high blood levels. That black film that gets on your hands from shooting revolvers has the primer lead in it. Wash up thoroughly before eating, smoking, or rubbing your face.

Wall-e wrote: My elementary school had a rifle range under the first grade classrooms. Draw your own conclusions.

Um. Might I inquire where it was that you attended school?

As usual this thread is awesome for info. The GRM Braintrust comes through again!

Thanks for the replies.

In my home town I drank water out of lead pipes as a youngster. Lots of people did, as that was what the city installed years before that.

I'm pretty sure it was all dug up and replaced by 1980 or so. And surprisingly when they did the water tested very, very low for lead content.

Which is funny, because sometimes I feel like it accumulated in my ass.