SVreX wrote: So, we argue about the whole thing IN THEORY, but honestly have no idea how much the cost is to any of us, or how it compares to others.
The data of the actual cost/benefit to you is in the tax forms you get from your employer. that's part of the ACA requirements.
So we CAN (if people are willing to divulge) put together everybody's data from 2013 if they had health coverage.
FWIW, for me, a $5k system would be one that is high deductable.
In reply to DrBoost:
I'm sorry Dr. I am not trying to derail your thread.
I like your tootsie roll proposal! 
In reply to alfadriver:
I (like MANY self employed people) have neither an employer nor coverage from 2013 to compare to.
I am trying to step up and buy something I've never had (wasn't that the point- get more people insured??)
Can't get a real cost, because the subsidy is so nebulous.
Can't afford the full price tag, so I can't make that commitment.
Therefore, no choice but to continue to go without, and pay the penalty.
I compared to my work plan because it is high for our family plan.
On the ACA exchange in LA which refused to set up an exchange so ours is ran by the fed, the platinum plan for a family of 4 non-smoker through BlueCross Blue Shield was $948 a month. No subsidies
Other plans were much cheaper but that one sticks out
Just a data point here.
That wasn't worded right...
I have had no employer to compare to.
I currently do have an employer who offers no benefits, and is not required to.
Therefore, no info. Lots of people like me.
Many of you work for decent sized companies. Many have had insurance. I think that is great.
But it doesn't address the problem for many of us.
According to the official website of the White House, 96% of all firms in the US will be exempt from the employer responsibility requirements of the ACA. They employ 34 million people.
I am one of them.
Whitehouse.gov said: The law specifically exempts all firms that have fewer than 50 employees – 96 percent of all firms in the United States or 5.8 million out of 6 million total firms – from any employer responsibility requirements. These 5.8 million firms employ nearly 34 million workers. More than 96 percent of firms with 50 or more employees already offer health insurance to their workers. Less than 0.2 percent of all firms (about 10,000 out of 6 million) may face employer responsibility requirements. Many firms that do not currently offer coverage will be more likely to do so because of lower premiums and wider choices in the Exchange
My choices are limited to 1 that I can't afford.
So, back on topic...
Dr. Boost, my answer to your question is that there is a great deal of variance in the cost, and it can impact you significantly. I think you are wise to consider it carefully. Get a quote from an insurer, and use it in your negotiations.
Boost, if you're going to work as contract vs direct, you may (probably will) be on the hook for all of your Social Security and Medicare deductions as well, essentially 2x what you would otherwise be paying, so be sure to factor that into your salary discussion as well.
I didn't mean to start a poop-storm... it was really just a basic question of how much insurance through the ACA portal might be vs what my company is paying now. All towards the hope of being able to be self-employed and self-insured one day.
Ian F wrote: Boost, if you're going to work as contract vs direct, you may (probably will) be on the hook for all of your Social Security and Medicare deductions as well, essentially 2x what you would otherwise be paying, so be sure to factor that into your salary discussion as well.
As an independent contractor, he will be.
In reply to SVreX:
Well, the relative cost question was brought up, many thinking that they had this very high cost option- which is actually very close to what those who get it as a benefit pay as well.
Which brings up a rather harsh reality- why does your company not cover you? Maybe they should. Or at least help.
Funny how, as a society, we migrate away from good solid beneift of having a job- health care, pension, etc. To just money. There's more to a good job than cash.
Anyway, what you can't afford is right in the ballpark of what most pay. Which sucks.
SVreX wrote: In reply to z31maniac: But you didn't! You replied with the percentage you pay of your employer's cost. You don't know what it costs, because you don't know their discount rate, what the differences are from one location to the next, how the coverages vary, etc. etc. etc.
Dude....
He literally said this, verbatim:
"In my case, they pay about 66% of the cost of the insurance + throw $1400 a year in an HSA account. My wife and I's high deductible plan (no kids) with a $10k out-of-pocket maximum has a total cost of around $4000 for what I and the company contribute. "
Simple math says his cost is $1333.33. Employer's cost is $2666.67, plus the cost of any claims they pay money out on.
For the benefits themselves, the total cost is $4000.00.
I really don't understand how this could have been made clearer to prevent 3 posts after the fact ripping into him for sharing his very clear and easy to understand anecdote.
I will say this, when my wife and I were trying to work out actual numbers we had to call.
That gave us what we really looking for. But as said before, closed so no go till October now, without special circumstance.
alfadriver wrote: Which brings up a rather harsh reality- why does your company not cover you? Maybe they should. Or at least help.
Your question is very nice. I'd love to fix the world, along with this problem.
But it masks the harsher reality behind it: Not everyone has the choices you do.
The simple answer to your question is that they don't have to. Slightly more complicated answer, they can't, without loosing a lot of business.
According to the SBA, 95% of businesses in GA have fewer than 50 employees, and 87% have fewer than 5 employees.
So, I would ask from the business's perspective, "Why they heck should we provide health insurance and make our labor rates high enough to not be close to our competitors, and the vast majority of the employers in the state?".
And, from the employee's perspective, I would ask, "Why should I rock THAT boat, and risk loosing my job when jobs are so hard to find?".
Your perspective is valid, but please don't forget that you are in a bit of a privileged position which not everyone has.
The ACA was supposed to help people like me. You already have insurance.
In reply to Swank Force One:
Chill.
Those are not answers to the OP's question. He asked about the cost of buying health insurance himself in MI. Z31's employer-provided insurance in OK is not representative of what he might pay.
The truth is, you are in IN, Z31 is in OK, I am in GA, and Dr. B is in MI.
NONE of us can offer him an answer, even anecdotally.
Dr. B: Get a quote.
SVreX wrote: The simple answer to your question is that they don't have to. Slightly more complicated answer, they can't, without loosing a lot of business.
Well, no. Not quite. Because there is the choice to support the race to the bottom, employers are willing to latch onto it and not give it up for the almighty last penny pinching dollar.
The government could force these companies to do so (make it mandatory). Like practically the rest of the 1st world has. And it hasn't really cost them (the companies still make ridiculous amounts of money) business, but it certainly has helped the employee.
Naw, too easy :p And I made it political! ;)
SVreX wrote: In reply to DrBoost: I'm sorry Dr. I am not trying to derail your thread. I like your tootsie roll proposal!
Hey, the fact that this thread got derailed but didn't devolve into political bashing and getting locked is fine with me. I took a number higher than insurance will cost me and shot it over the bow. They really want me for this position, we'll see how badly they want me.
Ian F wrote: you may (probably will) be on the hook for all of your Social Security and Medicare deductions as well, essentially 2x what you would otherwise be paying, so be sure to factor that into your salary discussion as well.
Sun of a biscuit! I didn't even think about that. I'll have to find that out if they actually call me in for an interview. Thanks for the heads-up.
Ian F wrote: I didn't mean to start a poop-storm... it was really just a basic question of how much insurance through the ACA portal might be vs what my company is paying now. All towards the hope of being able to be self-employed and self-insured one day.
No problem at all. It prompted a lot of good discussion, and at least one other person said they were kind of in the same boat as me, so at least two people learned something from this.
Datsun1500 wrote: Who is the "they" and why do they owe you anything?
They "owe" others something because without the "others", "they" are nothing. The 1% are not the 1% because of JUST their own work (as some would like to think trying to justify their $million dollar per year CEO salaries, they are just one person, nobody is worth that), they are there because they earn multiple amounts of money off the backs of others... which most are more than happy to do.
And for the record, I earn very good money. Last year was my first time into six figures which was cool. I work hard. But I also support my fellow man and recognize that in order for the world to be a better place, some people need a bit of a hand. The greed of a single man is multiplied an infinite amount of times when thousands of them are put together into a corporation with one goal: earn ALL the money at whatever cost. So yes, screw corporations and their desire to destroy the people who work for them, turning them into slaves to the almighty dollar so they can live in today's society.
In reply to HiTempguy:
Your monumental bias and gross lack of understanding on this issue just undermined any credibility you had for me on this subject.
I really hoped you were joking in your earlier post.
HiTempguy, I'm going to use my dad's business as an example here. Along with a partner, they have a small company that used to employ about 30 people, now they are down to around 10. The big reason for the drop is the cost of doing business. They have supported the company out of their own pocket for several years due to various circumstances, not the least of which are new regulations and the cost of healthcare. Do you have any real idea of the cost of healthcare to an employer? Besides salaries it is by far the largest single cost. When you have a bump in price, it greatly affects those that work there. You only have so much expenditures for employees and benefits, if those get raised, it has to come from somewhere.
Like others have said, there is no magic pot of money. Smaller business in particular are usually run on a tight margin. And when times get tough, you either have to cut expenses (if possible), cut employees, fund it out of your pocket, or shut the doors. Some of these aren't always and option. What happens when you burn through your reserves? Or have borrowed all you can borrow? It sucks to let people go, but that's what happens when you raise costs faster than businesses can absorb them.
I also used to have my own business. It took many years before I even got a paycheck. Yet my few employees always got paid. You claim that they only chase the all mighty dollar, yet you know so little about running a real business. Most people I know that have their own business and employ people do so because that's what they love to do. Of course they want to make a profit, but usually that is not the driving goal. Most also have families to take care of as well.
Sorry for being long winded, but posts like yours burn me to the core as they are so fruitless on assumptions.
Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to HiTempguy: Your company can insure many people with the $100,000 they paid you last year if they let you go. Please be sure to suggest that in the next meeting, your fellow employees will thank you.
He's Canadian.
If his company let's him go, it may be because he's insufferable and presents a workplace hazard to his co-workers.
Hi Tempguy wrote:
"…million dollar per year CEO salaries, they are just one person, nobody is worth that."
Says who... the political regime du jour, the Borg, those that claim to walk with god, you perhaps?
Just exactly who do you think could be entrusted with the immense power of deciding how much a person’s contributions are worth…I’ll wait.
Please explain why a company would tolerate paying their CEO a million days per year if they thought someone else could do as good of job for less…I’ll wait.
What do you do for entertainment since you certainly boycott sports, racing, movies, and music since those professions are inundated with people making waaaaaay over a million dollars per year…I’ll wait.
Capitalism can be cold and merciless at times, I’ll give you that. It can be no other way as it acknowledges and leverages selfishness at a fundament level.
However, the alternatives are far worse as they only work when everyone is altruistic, all the time…I’ll wait.
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