Learn Me - Renting Excavation Equipment

I'm just wondering if I can get through the sandstone without a bucket, because as said above, I've got friends proficient in bobcats, but not as many proficient in mini-exs. Plus, a skidsteer is much easier for me to learn than a excavator. 

My thought was to clear away as much soft soil as possible to expose the rock, hit the rock one weekend with a jackhammer, then come back the next weekend to clear it away with the front loader of the skidsteer. 

To give you an idea of the hardness of this rock, I can cut through it pretty easy with a hoe or a pick, but not with a shovel. 

A toothed bucket on a Bobcat would probably do it. A smooth bucket, no.

EvanB said:

Who did you end up going with and what size of skidsteer? I am renting one soon and have been looking at a couple places but haven't called yet. 

Franklin Equipment Rental. They're really good to work with. I haven't had problems with Sunbelt either, but Franklin has their Homeowner special with the cheap weekend rentals and I loved it.

Really I could have used the thing for a few more days, too. When I called for pickup they didn't have anyone after me using it yet, and asked it if was in the way or if they could leave it for a few days. I said take your time and it was there for 3-4 more days I could have been scooping stuff up and putting it back down. Instead I was at work. :(

The total rental was $537 with delivery and pickup and tax. That was for the tracked skidsteer, I didn't specify size but the tracked ones are by default pretty big. It would dwarf your typical wheeled bobcat. The tracked one tears up your lawn a LOT less.

The min-backhoe  would be the most useful as you have the hoe an the bucket.

Mini-backhoes are notoriously wimpy.  It frequently takes 5 or 6 hours to do a job a full sized one could do in 20 minutes  

I will never rent one again. 

What exactly were you trying to do?

When I built my shop, I hired a dozer guy.  He charged (adjusted for inflation) $80/hour with a 4 hour minimum callout for one piece of equipment (dozer or backhoe).

Appleseed said:

Also, wear the seat belt. Our 853 Bobcat had the harness bar, which was good enough for jumping in and out  all day, but hit something like a paver brick while snowplowing, and 8,000 lbs will stop-dead. You won't. I bonked my head into the cab at speed, twice. I learned my lesson.

Also keep full buckets low when you’re moving.  When I dug the pit for a spray booth I had the bucket high because the ramp was getting steep and I turtled it. Once you roll onto your back most of the dirt dumps in on you.

Appleseed said:

What exactly were you trying to do?

Dig a hole. 

Dr. Hess said:

When I built my shop, I hired a dozer guy.  He charged (adjusted for inflation) $80/hour with a 4 hour minimum callout for one piece of equipment (dozer or backhoe).

Plus, a seasoned operator can do the job MUCH faster than an amateur. 

SVreX said:

Mini-backhoes are notoriously wimpy.  It frequently takes 5 or 6 hours to do a job a full sized one could do in 20 minutes  

I will never rent one again. 

True, you can also do a lot more damage in 20 minutes that would otherwise take you 5 or 6 hours to accomplish. Plus, what's the fun in being done in twenty minutes with an adult tonka toy.

Experience makes all the difference when it comes to earthmoving machinery.

The difference was really highlighted to me the last couple of times working with my dad, an operator of 30+years, most recently a couple of weeks ago.

He wanted to take a break for a bit and told me to jump on the mini excavator we'd hired... I'm no slouch on machinery like forklifts, skid steers and tractors... But watching me operate, and I use the term very loosely, the mini excavator had me well out of my element and my dad in hysterics. I lasted about 15minutes before he asked if I was having fun making a mess and did we want to get the job done sometime this year? I laughed and said "13 minutes vs 30 years of experience.... She's all yours thanks dad"

Moral of the story, if you're unfamiliar with operating earth moving gear, you can eat up an awful lot of time and achieve very little. Budget extra hire time in case it turns out that it isn't as easy a job as you may have thought.

What took my dad 2 Full days would have taken me a week, and I'm not confident I would have done as good a job as he did. Not to mention the potential damages I could have incurred working near pipes and fencing.

As for hire, I've found places that specialise in earth moving gear to be the go. The gear seems to be better maintained because that's what they rely on. General hire places don't seem to look after the plant as well, and because they attract a lot more diy'ers, the gear always seems to be a little worse for wear.

In reply to D2W :

If the only thing you are good at on a machine is doing damage, you don't have any business renting anything at all.

I think it would be much easier to do damage with a mini.  They are underpowered, and twitchy.  It's frustrating to not be able to do basic work, and you end up revving up the throttle, which makes it much twitchier.  Super easy to jerk it into the house or something.

Plus, they have stupid short reach.  You have to set up 3 times as often as in a full sized machine.  That's 3 times as much opportunity for error.  It's a tool designed for amateurs who are afraid to use a backhoe.  Professional grading contractors almost never own them.  Skid steer, absolutely. Mini-Ex, all the time.  Not a mini backhoe.  It's a toy that is not designed for getting the job done.

The only appealing thing about them is that you can almost tow them with a pickup truck.  Almost.  If you have a real truck to tow, there is no point in considering having one.

It would be like trying to do an HPDE in a Camry.  It's not the tool for the job.

Dr. Hess said:

When I built my shop, I hired a dozer guy.  He charged (adjusted for inflation) $80/hour with a 4 hour minimum callout for one piece of equipment (dozer or backhoe).

When I built my garage at my first house I hired a bobcat guy that charged me $50/hour.  His skill was worth the $150.00 he charged me.  

Equipment is very expensive to buy, maintain and move. $80 an hour is basically a steal for an experienced operator and good equipment. I hired a guy to build me a road,gravel an existing road ,dig a septic tank hole and knock down trees for a pad. It took him 6 hours to do all that and the road graveled was 1/4 of a mile, he even added some drainage ditches.

Cost me $700 all told including the gravel which he got from his own pit. And it took a day.

Worth it

SVreX said:

Appleseed said:

What exactly were you trying to do?

Dig a hole. 

Operator error. I've been witness to insane tight excavations, in rock hard clay, with a mini-hoe, with results that would blow your mind. I am not making fun. 5-10-15+ years experience in operating will give you insight that a casual user will never achieve. 

One thing to consider is homeowners insurance policies (at least mine through 2 different vendors) do not cover rented equipment.  Most of the rental agreement (again in my experience) do not cover theft.  Just something to think about when you are renting a $30-75k+ piece of equipment.

Appleseed said:

SVreX said:

Appleseed said:

What exactly were you trying to do?

Dig a hole. 

Operator error. I've been witness to insane tight excavations, in rock hard clay, with a mini-hoe, with results that would blow your mind. I am not making fun. 5-10-15+ years experience in operating will give you insight that a casual user will never achieve. 

First off, I have 35 years experience operating.

Secondly, pheller does not. 

I am not speaking from a perspective of ignorance. I am trying to help an inexperienced person know what to look for in equipment to get the job done well.

Thank you for your support. 

Cool. I have 14. And I have used hoes, backhoes, mini-excavators and bobcats. I stand by what I said. I'm not going to support yours, as mini-excavator don't in fact suck. None of the equipment will be easy if you've never oporated before. 

Does everything have to be a pissing contest with you?

Well, if you read it, Paul did actually say that mini-excavators do not in fact suck:

SVreX said:

It's a tool designed for amateurs who are afraid to use a backhoe.  Professional grading contractors almost never own them.  Skid steer, absolutely. Mini-Ex, all the time.  Not a mini backhoe.  It's a toy that is not designed for getting the job done.

He was talking about mini-backhoes sucking.

Wait, what are we calling mini-excavators? Mini-hoes, or mini-backhoes? Now I am confused. If we are if fact talking about a mini-backhoe, I have no experience with them, and take my statement back.

pheller said:
 

When you say mini-backhoe, you mean something like this:

 

 

This ^^^^^ is a mini backhoe.  This is a mini excavator:

Then I AM wrong and I take it back. 

In reply to Appleseed :

Sounds like we agree. 

I kinda have a preference for civil conversation, than being accused publically of trying to start a pissing contest. 

I appreciate it when people help me know when I have overstepped the line, and try as best I can to correct things when I make mistakes.

But I'm not much for public BS. 

Have a nice day.  I appreciate your positive contributions.