Learn me TPMs

Tire Pressure Monitors are sort of new to me. Most of my past fleet was old enough that I have only had to deal with them on my wife's 2010 Mazda5.

I now have a '07 Prius and and '05 Quest that have TPMs. I have some questions as they relate to my desired plans for winter tires on both the '07 Prius and '00 Focus.

I recently aquired some used 15" steel rims for the '00 Focus (4x108). The rims came from a '10 Focus and the rims included TPMs. The '00 is so old that it does not need TPMs.

Question #1:
Can the TPMs be pulled from these rims and just standard valve stems used?
Is there a hole diameter size difference in wheels made for TPMs and rims not?

I am still seeking some additional rims for the Prius to mount winter tires to. My size searching seems that 5x100 rims from a '03 and newer Corolla should fit.

Question #2:
Could the Ford TPMs be used on the Toyota?
Is there this kind of "universal-ness" to TPMs or are they more brand specific?
If I find rims from a '03 Corolla (pre TPMs) will TPMs fit in the valve stem hole?

TPMS use the same roughly-7/16" hole as everything else.

Ford and Toyota TPMS are probably not compatible. There are two different frequencies (315MHz and the other one) and a new sensor has to be prepared for use on a given vehicle, usually. If they are compatible, use the Toyota sensors on the Ford, as Ford is the nicest company as far as TPMS relearning is concerned.

You usually destroy a sensor by trying to remove it, too. The aluminum stem ones always sieze. The snap-in style can have the sensor removed from the stem, which is great since you destroy the stem as the pricess of removal (same as a non-TPMS valve stem)

Here is a zoom shot of the Ford TPMs if that helps at all to figure compatibility.

God, I hate this berkeleying law.

FWIW ... Can't speak specifically to Toyota's or Ford's TPMS systems, as my experience is 2009 Honda Accord based. That said, if you choose to run tires that don't have the sender units in them, I would suspect that the TPMS dash warning light will be on. No big deal, right? Well, on a Honda anyway, this defeats the traction and stability control. Not good if you want those features to be operational. Again, that is what a Honda Accord does, your situation might be different, but I'd at least check that out.

In reply to Woody:

Like any other regulation, it's required because people have proven to be berking idiots sometimes.

Not that it helps. I had a conversation with a family member regarding TPMS, with the synopsis being that she understood that cold weather would make the light come on. However, she thought that it was the cold making the sensors mess up, not the tires being actually low on air because the air shrunk, so she never bothered to put air in the tires.

Remember, that mandatory rearview camera is because you can't see anything behind you because of the super high beltlines that we have because they shield baby's face when they are in a rear facing baby seat in the back because cars are required to have airbags because people were too lazy to bother putting their seatbelts on.

And we have seatbelts, because some Army Air Force officers noticed that more fighter pilots died in traffic accidents than combat.

If you want new ones check eBay. I got a set of 4 for my Fiat for about $50.

Woody wrote: God, I hate this berkeleying law.

AND, they make impossible to balance the wheels without using a crap ton of weights.

tape over warning light, move on with your day....

I have read that some systems don't turn on the light unless they get a signal that pressure is low. In other words, no signal means no light.

Hyundai and Kia are the ones I read about, but others may be similar. I only have Korean cars right now, so those were the ones I was researching for winter tire setups.

I have not had an opportunity to test this theory, so YMMV.

jstand wrote: I have read that some systems don't turn on the light unless they get a signal that pressure is low. In other words, no signal means no light. Hyundai and Kia are the ones I read about, but others may be similar. I only have Korean cars right now, so those were the ones I was researching for winter tire setups. I have not had an opportunity to test this theory, so YMMV.

We just put winter tires on my wife's 2017 Santa Fe. No sensors installed in the winter rims and no warning light on the dash. Colour me happy.

what I would like is for somebody to make TPMs for trailers. It does not need to be anything complicated, just a light that comes on if one tyre gets low. I talked to a couple of manufacturers and the sensor range is all too far away to reach the interior of my disco from my boat trailer's tyres. I begin to wonder if I could set it up with a relay system with the brains on the trailer and just a bright light I can put somewhere on the dash when towing

I think they've got the range. I've been repairing a punctured tire at one end of the shop and had a car reprogramming with the ignition on at the other side of the shop and the "easy fill" horn honk was going off as I was seating the bead. Further distance than any trailer would be.

TPMS save me from ruining a tire a couple of times. That's good.

But then I don't have the sensors on my winter tires.

Since I have the TPMS tires stored in the garage it seems that the light won't come on for app. 15 miles + -.

Tape over the light.

The dude at the tire shop in town was telling me that the newest TPMS setups don't use a sensor in the wheel at all, and instead just sync up the ABS/Traction Control sensor, so they can tell that one tire is low by how many turns it takes per mile vs the others. That'll be sweet.

mad_machine wrote: what I would like is for somebody to make TPMs for trailers. It does not need to be anything complicated, just a light that comes on if one tyre gets low. I talked to a couple of manufacturers and the sensor range is all too far away to reach the interior of my disco from my boat trailer's tyres. I begin to wonder if I could set it up with a relay system with the brains on the trailer and just a bright light I can put somewhere on the dash when towing

They do make them for trailers, usually using a booster for the signal. Probably not as cheap as you would like, run in the $200 and up range. Examples:
https://www.amazon.com/EEZTire-Tire-Pressure-Monitoring-System/dp/B009BE069Q
http://www.campingworld.com/category/tire-accessories/201

In reply to WonkoTheSane:

Ooh I like that. No more reprogramming after a tire rotation.

Knurled wrote: In reply to Woody: Like any other regulation, it's required because people have proven to be berking idiots sometimes.

I know this is true, but why do we always forget that the guys writing the regulations have also proven to be berking idiots sometimes. You can't fix stupid, even with laws. More laws= More loopholes. Always.

Scratch that. The guys writing the regulations have proven to be berking idiots ALWAYS. (Except for the way in which they have created job security by convincing everyone that the world will be a better place when they write better laws). Maybe they are brilliant. (Or maybe we are exceedingly stupid).

gearheadmb wrote: In reply to WonkoTheSane: Ooh I like that. No more reprogramming after a tire rotation.

Me too! No more expensive sensors to fail, swap tires with impunity, etc. He was telling me about this while I was in having a sensor rebuilt on my '05 Town & Country.. Because of the TMPS, you never replace the aluminum valvestem, and this one snapped clean off due to corrosion while I was putting the cap back on.

SVreX wrote:

Knurled wrote: In reply to Woody: Like any other regulation, it's required because people have proven to be berking idiots sometimes.

I know this is true, but why do we always forget that the guys writing the regulations have also proven to be berking idiots sometimes. You can't fix stupid, even with laws. More laws= More loopholes. Always. Scratch that. The guys writing the regulations have proven to be berking idiots ALWAYS. (Except for the way in which they have created job security by convincing everyone that the world will be a better place when they write better laws). Maybe they are brilliant. (Or maybe we are exceedingly stupid).

This "problem" could have been resolved much more cheaply and easily by including a quality tire pressure gauge in the glove box of each new car, along with detailed instructions on how to use it on the front cover of every vehicles owner's manual.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Question #1: Can the TPMs be pulled from these rims and just standard valve stems used? Is there a hole diameter size difference in wheels made for TPMs and rims not? I am still seeking some additional rims for the Prius to mount winter tires to. My size searching seems that 5x100 rims from a '03 and newer Corolla should fit.

Yes, as was stated earlier, TPMS valve stems can be replaced with standard rubber valve stems without issue.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Question #2: Could the Ford TPMs be used on the Toyota? Is there this kind of "universal-ness" to TPMs or are they more brand specific?

Using the Ford TPMS with the Toyota might be possible, but I'd file it away in the unlikely bucket. I'll check my reference book when I get home tonight.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Is there this kind of "universal-ness" to TPMs or are they more brand specific?

The aftermarket has come up with a couple of "universal" TMPS replacement sensors that can be used with multiple brands of cars. But the ones you have are obviously Ford specific (see embossed "FoMoCo").

Interchangeability of sensors also depends on what type of TPMS is being used: direct or indirect. Direct TPMS systems have sensors in the wheels to measure air pressure directly (hence the name). Indirect systems use the ABS wheel speed sensors to compare the four wheel speeds when driving in a straight line. When one is xx% different from the others (or the set baseline measurement) it trips the TPMS light. The Focus has a direct system. I'm not sure what your Prius or Quest has. Again, I'll look it up in my reference book.

JohnRW1621 wrote: If I find rims from a '03 Corolla (pre TPMs) will TPMs fit in the valve stem hole?

Possibly. The stem itself should fit in the hole. The issue that may arrive is clearance for the sensor that mounts to the stem. Modern TPMS equipped alloys have a small clearance area machined out for the TPMS sensor. But you might not need it.

jstand wrote: I have read that some systems don't turn on the light unless they get a signal that pressure is low. In other words, no signal means no light. Hyundai and Kia are the ones I read about, but others may be similar. I only have Korean cars right now, so those were the ones I was researching for winter tire setups. I have not had an opportunity to test this theory, so YMMV.

Chrysler doesn't. Two of the minivan sensors had dead batteries (not surprising, they are six years old) and the light came on.

WonkoTheSane wrote: The dude at the tire shop in town was telling me that the newest TPMS setups don't use a sensor in the wheel at all, and instead just sync up the ABS/Traction Control sensor, so they can tell that one tire is low by how many turns it takes per mile vs the others. That'll be sweet.

great, but hes wrong.

There have been systems built that way for the last ten years. They are considered sub-optimal and do not satisfy the law.

WonkoTheSane wrote: The dude at the tire shop in town was telling me that the newest TPMS setups don't use a sensor in the wheel at all, and instead just sync up the ABS/Traction Control sensor, so they can tell that one tire is low by how many turns it takes per mile vs the others. That'll be sweet.

That's actually the old system that GM and some other companies used before 2008.

It works sort of okay. Toyotas are a real pain because they are so sensitive that they will detect that you're due for a tire rotation. Frequent false positives are a bad thing, they train you to ignore the warning.

Woody wrote: This "problem" could have been resolved much more cheaply and easily by including a quality tire pressure gauge in the glove box of each new car, along with detailed instructions on how to use it on the front cover of every vehicles owner's manual.

Cars come with dipsticks, too, and people don't use them either. Which is why so many cars have level sensors now, and the German Big Three don't even give you dipsticks anymore, it's all electronically sensed.