LERN ME: Dealing With Toxic Family Edition

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) said:

I'd move to the other side of the country.  Send cards on holidays.  Distance makes the heart grow fonder.

There's a whole lot of truth in this! Since moving away from our hometown 5-years ago I've really noticed a change in our & our kid's attitudes toward it & the people there - whether they were friends or relatives - and as a result my FB "friends" list, and the people I thought I cared about, grows shorter every year. It's been amazing for our sanity & stress levels. 

Also, I have a half-sister who's 11-years older than me, and sounds a lot like your sister. Fortunately without any kids of her own. Her mother supported her most of her life, buying a house for her & paying her bills, etc  

I've not seen or spoken to her since our grandmother's funeral in '04, but a friend of mine was asking about her & did some internet sleuthing. We were able to piece together that her mother must have died & she inherited the house(in a pretty nice subdivision), but she'd been fined twice for cruelty to animals for having malnourished & uncared for dogs outside at the property, and arrested once for setting a pair of jeans on fire at her ex-boyfriend's apartment.

So yeah, I know it sucks not to get to spend time with your parents, but it's time to just stay away from all of that except your two nephews. 

I don't talk to my sister at all. 3 years younger, 5 kids from two different guys, has always depended on my parents to help her and/or bail her out of her constant stream of bad decisions. 

Outside of my mom and dad, I really don't talk much to the rest of my family. It's mostly aggravating anymore. I've even told my dad to just stop telling me about the drama with my sister. I have been hearing about it for 2 decades now and I'm over it.

When it comes to emotional and psychological games that people might try to play on you, I try to always remember that, "you can not loose if you do not play."  Or, the easiest way to win is to just not play.  It really makes the other people steam if you will not take the bait.  

Another thing, similar, is that people trying to "guilt you into things" only works if you allow it to.  Again, don't play the game and don't take the bait.  

I don't know if  y'all remember Ann Landers, an advice columnist for years.

She used to get letters asking what to do with problems like this.

She usually said something like tell the toxic people you won't see them until they grow up. 

Invite over the ones you want to see, nephews for example.

I stopped seeing toxic relatives and other people for years at a time.  Sometimes never again.   

I can tell you that cutting ties is painful at the time it happens, but once you've gone through it it's less stressful than dealing with drama all of the time. You've gotten good advice. Make your wife #1. Reduce any contact that increases your stress levels.

The funny thing is, when my sister had moved out and it was just my parents there, things were better. A LOT better. I could manage visits with them better, and they were more accepting of my decisions. Spending time with them was easier and fun.

When my sister is there, things change. It's like they are on the defensive all the time and cede authority to her because they don't want to deal with her crap. It's like flipping a switch. She feeds my dad BS and he will always defend her and bail her out (sometimes literally). My mom just gets mad at my dad and her and locks herself in her room. Her sanity has degraded as a result. 

It sucks. I don't hate my parents, and I want them to be able to live their lives as they should. My sister won't let that happen. Beyond frustrating.

Lots of good advice here so I won't repeat it, but give a blanket +1 to the collective responses.  That said, I will address something you said and how it relates to your wife's recent reaction.  You mentioned that they didn't respect the boundaries you set.  I'll go out on a limb and say she's frustrated that there hasn't been a change in tactics yet.  Frankly, whether or not what she (or this forum) has in mind is the right way forward she has a point.  Fortunately, it sounds like you're ready for a change yourself.    

I don't have much to add other than I have a rule that I don't need drama in my life from others.  I've cut family and best friends out of my life because of that rule.  I've always been better off afterwards.  I thought it was interesting when a family member said I was the only one in my family that didn't have to deal with the emotional string pulling because everyone understood that I'd just say berk off and mean it.

It's hard for a fixer to be firm with boundaries in this kind of circumstance, been there, done that. Almost had a nervous breakdown trying to fix my mother (self destructive) before setting boundaries that have her pretty much out of my life due to her not honoring them.

You will guilt yourself and blame yourself when you have to enforce a boundary. Just remind yourself that it's not your problem and not your responsibility to fix. 

I usually find that such issues need to be dealt with bluntly and simply so what follows is me being blunt and hopefully helpful.

Why are these people in your life? You get zero happiness and they continue to add problems to it. 

My takeaway by reading between the lines is you don't want to confront them and dislike confrontation in general. Stop that at once.

I wouldn't try to salvage the situation, make them be the ones to come to you if they want a life including you.

Tony Sestito said:

The funny thing is, when my sister had moved out and it was just my parents there, things were better. A LOT better. I could manage visits with them better, and they were more accepting of my decisions. Spending time with them was easier and fun.

When my sister is there, things change. It's like they are on the defensive all the time and cede authority to her because they don't want to deal with her crap. It's like flipping a switch. She feeds my dad BS and he will always defend her and bail her out (sometimes literally). My mom just gets mad at my dad and her and locks herself in her room. Her sanity has degraded as a result. 

It sucks. I don't hate my parents, and I want them to be able to live their lives as they should. My sister won't let that happen. Beyond frustrating.

One other path that just cutting them off- you need to talk to your dad.  Try to really show his daughter's impact on everyone's lives- yours, moms, your wife, her kids, etc.  She's the problem, not mom & dad (other than it sounds like dad is an enabler).  

Daugher is making mom crazy (literally) and pushing you away.  Suggest dad choose between having his wife, and son/daughter-in-law or your blood daughter, noting the effects your child has on EVERYONE else.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

That is, of course, worth a try. 

But he's had 45 years to see this is a problem.  He's decided not to.  Telling / showing him it is a problem is unlikely to be effective.

In reply to Duke :

You are right that it's unlikely to make a differecnce.  But it would be easier to me to walk away when it's someone else's decision.  The games that they wuold play would be reflected in dad's decision to separate the family- and not on Tony anymore.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

Oh he knows. I've discussed this with him countless times and he wants to do something but never pulls the trigger. I've watched the man cry over this a number of times. It's heartbreaking and infuriating. 

In another note, I just got off the phone with him. I stood my ground, and guess what? They caved. Original plan is on, sister or no sister. 

Shocked. I am SHOCKED. 

That said, in the future, I am not messing around. My wife and I set the rules of engagement, and we will do what we feel is comfortable for us. Not letting anyone dictate my life at 38 years old. Done with that crap!

 

Tony Sestito said:

-There are four of us in the core family: mom, dad, sister, and I.

Nope. There are 2 in the core family, You and Your Wife. The others are relatives. Don't let your relatives berkeley up or berkeley with your family. 
 

I grew up in a toxic household, the day I got married I started MY family and everything else is secondary. My family, our rules, don't like them, not my problem. Tell your parents they are welcome to come to your house, if they choose not to, that's on them. 

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

Fair enough. 
 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

THIS

Your responsibility to your wife supercedes your prior family. This got really apparent to my wife and I when we had our son. Drama in the families we came from is back burner to each other and our kids with trust that we don't abuse each other using that responsibility as leverage. 

Tony - great news!

I'd recommend keeping a copy of this thread in your file cabinet.. I have two letters that went back and forth between my parents and I, as well a few emails... When I started being more firm, it was useful to occasionally review that yes, it was in fact, that bad before.  And it wasn't me initiating it.  I haven't had to look at those letters for a few years :)

When I owned my practice, I made it clear to everyone there, "We fire drama."

It's really hard for me, just like many of us here reading this, not to describe our own interactions with our families. 

As was said earlier, this isn't about me, but I'll give a brief description of my situation so that I can relate how I came out the other side.

I hope that can help you to know how common this sort of situation is. You're not alone.

My alcoholic/drug-using brother ran my dad into bankruptcy and turned my dad against me. 

I had bailed my dad out more than once, at one point even borrowing $40,000 so that he could fix his house up and sell it. The plan we had agreed to was that he would pay me back from the proceeds from the house. He was going to sell the house in order to separate from my brother.

After the work was done, my brother and dad just moved back in again, and I was left paying the loan.

Fortunately, I was able to transfer the remaining portion of the loan to a reverse mortgage and get it paid off.

I continued to try to help my dad, but finally received a demand letter from a lawyer accusing me of stealing the $40,000 that I had borrowed, every penny of which had gone into his house. 

Being accused of stealing was the most painful thing I had ever experienced.

I shut them off. No contact whatsoever. It was hard but it was the best choice of the bad options available.

It took me at least a year to resolve my feelings and realize that I was better off.

Then, when my brothers paranoia and my dad's dementia got bad enough, I got a phone call from the state that I needed to come get my dad out of the house.

I could have said no at that point, and I don't think anyone that knew the situation would have blamed me.

I got my dad into a couple of assisted living facilities for the last 2 years of his life. By then I had no real feelings for him anymore, but I did it because I felt that it was the right thing to do.

My dad's been dead for a year, and he's been out of that house for three years. The bank never followed up on the reverse mortgage, so my brother's just squatting in the house. No plumbing (I had two septic tanks replaced, he parked cars on both of them), no water, no electricity.

We have no contact. That's never going to change. 

My wife and I had our 25th wedding anniversary this year. We've never had a fight. 

Fire drama.

Tony,

Congratulations! A significant 1st step. Just because you are related to someone doesn't mean you have to be subjected to poor treatment or demands that are contrary to your best interest. You've gotten lots of good advice in this thread. It won't always be easy to deal with this situation. Know when to just walk away and don't feel guilty for putting yourself and your wife first. Life is too short to let toxic people/relationships burden you. I'm rooting for you!!

Tony Sestito said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

Oh he knows. I've discussed this with him countless times and he wants to do something but never pulls the trigger. I've watched the man cry over this a number of times. It's heartbreaking and infuriating. 

In another note, I just got off the phone with him. I stood my ground, and guess what? They caved. Original plan is on, sister or no sister. 

Shocked. I am SHOCKED. 

That said, in the future, I am not messing around. My wife and I set the rules of engagement, and we will do what we feel is comfortable for us. Not letting anyone dictate my life at 38 years old. Done with that crap!

 

Good for you, Tony! Keep it going. Set your course and stay on it!

Glad you're taking charge. 

I'll second the recommendation for reading the advice column by Carolyn Hax. Washington Post.

After talking with the wife last night, she is happy with how I handled things this week. She isn't really mad AT me, more like she's mad FOR me, if that makes any sense. She doesn't like to see me get pushed around by them, and standing up for myself is the right thing to do.

Hopefully things go well when we go over there this time. It usually does when the most toxic element is not present.

Makes perfect sense. My wife is the same. 

From the first post we could tell ... you got this!!!