I have wanted to build a tube amplifier for a long time, but the cost of such a project made it impossible.
I now have some tubes. A metric E36 M3load of tubes. And some of them can be used in an amp- 6v6, 6l6, etc, 5u4, 12ax7, 12at7. In the whole mess there was one el84, no el34s.
What I'm having trouble deciding is what amp to build. What I think I want is Marshall sound, but in a low wattage amp. The whole neighborhood doesn't need to hear me suck at playing.
But, Marshall and low wattage are never mentioned in the same sentence. So how the heck do I find a proven circuit to do this?
I've read the Gerald Weber book "Desktop Reference of Hip Guitar Amps", but that seemed to be more focused on Fenders.
Any ideas?
\m/
I always thought the "Marshall sound" had a lot to do with pushing a little too much through a 4x12 cabinet, leading to some guitarists using a mic'd cabinet through other speakers for live shows rather than going straight to something bigger. If that's true, I have no idea how you'd replicate it quietly.
Disclaimer: all my gear was acquired because it was free or nearly free, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
There seems to be a number of websites offering kits for the 18-watt Marshall clones. Dunno how you'd go about finding the schematic though...
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/20990-the-mean-18-british-style-18-watt-amp-kits-from-mojotone-and-tube-depot
If there is a kit available, get that and build it, certainly as a first attempt project. There are a lot of special parts in that schematic. Impedance matching transformer, voltage selector, power transformer, etc. Even finding sockets for those tubes may be challenging today. I think you would be better off with a solid state rectifier circuit, though. Cheaper and easier, unless you just insist on being "all toobe."
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote:
I always thought the "Marshall sound" had a lot to do with pushing a little too much through a 4x12 cabinet, leading to some guitarists using a mic'd cabinet through other speakers for live shows rather than going straight to something bigger. If that's true, I have no idea how you'd replicate it quietly.
Disclaimer: all my gear was acquired because it was free or nearly free, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Well, I'm no expert either! From what I understand, that sound comes from driving the tubes hard- like volume turned up to 12. The tube types matter too- the Brits used some different types.
Dr. Hess wrote:
If there is a kit available, get that and build it, certainly as a first attempt project. There are a lot of special parts in that schematic. Impedance matching transformer, voltage selector, power transformer, etc. Even finding sockets for those tubes may be challenging today. I think you would be better off with a solid state rectifier circuit, though. Cheaper and easier, unless you just insist on being "all toobe."
I'm pretty sure I have all the parts. I may need to source different pots, and I'll need to get transformers.
Honestly I was even thinking I could trade parts (tubes) for the transformers.
1988RedT2 wrote:
Hmmm. I did find this:
http://www.chasingtone.com/schematics/PPl25/marshall_18watt_schem.pdf
You may just be onto something here...
I wonder if an overdrive pedal might make it sound right at lower volume.
Or maybe this with a tube rectifier?
EL 84's are your answer for a Marshall-ish sound with a small number of watts. But I'd start with any small inexpensive kit to get your feet wet. A drawer full of tubes you aren't using does you no good. Sell off the collection of tubes ( all but what you need to build your kit).
Building amps as a way to get the perfect sound, is a little like trying to build the perfect car -- fun but potentially an expensive black hole. Decide if you want learn to play well or tinker well and put the time and money there.
I don't know your electronics background so don't take this as condescending or anything.
First build. Tweed Champ. Pretty much always. They are easy, fun, tiny and inexpensive. They also sound great. Diode rectifier can bring the overall size way down. Wiring in an EL84 is almost as easy as changing the socket from an octal to a 9 pin. Look up the AX84.
Second build. Go for something with a push pull output section. Tweed deluxe (6V6 awesomeness), Spitfire (Vox-ish el84) or the good ol' 18W Marshall.
By this point you will be comfortable enough with the troubleshooting that messing with your own designs becomes feasible. You will also have started to experiment with altering things like coupling cap values and trying different bias ranges so all of the sudden the idea of a 6V6 output section on that Marshall 18 watt or Matchless lightning not only sounds doable, but also like a fun way to spend a few weeks of evenings.
Amp voices are as much in the coupling cap values, phase inverter types and tone stacks as they are in the tubes and speakers.
I am liking the "Classic Tone" transformers that Triode Electronics sells. Most of my gear is made from salvaged iron but I also have built with new and the Classic Tone output transformers sound much better than the Hammond stuff that used to be all you could find.
Adding in Reverb and Tremolo comes around build 3 or 4 if you are into it.
Look up Uncle Doug on youtube. His primers on circuit basics are really informative and easy to learn from. His builds are easy to follow. He has a few scratch builds that are genuinely "from scratch". I prefer to work with eyelet or turret boards instead of his true point to point style, but his method is far cheaper and he does it very cleanly.
Oh yeah. Standard disclaimer. Lethal voltages. Don't get dead
In reply to Jumper K. Balls:
Not taken as condescending at all!
I am an electrician by trade, and some of that does cover electronics. Part of my job involves messing with variable frequency drives for example. Oh, and I have a good friend at work that has amp building experience. If I get myself stuck I can ask him for help.
Uncle Dougs videos showed up on my radar just this week, and I thoroughly enjoy them!
I was pretty set on the idea of a Champ clone to start with, until I started listening to them. My biggest concern is building something and then not liking the way it sounds. But I'm sure there are ways around that, I simply haven't discovered them yet.
Nice work on your Spifire build too!
Personally I LOVE the sound of a champ IF you eschew the small speaker aspect. A 2X12 Cabinet changes the quaint "blues" amp into a monster. A 6V6 compresses so nicely with a huge fat sound. They are a one trick pony, but it is a great trick with a PAF in the bridge position.
I built one of the AX84 Hi Octane circuits a long time ago. Perhaps that is more up your alley.
It was voiced more like a JCM800 than the tweed Bassman sound of a champ at full tilt. I wonder what happened to that one? IIRC I built it in a thrift store sourced bread pan with the iron and sockets from a Wollensack reel to reel player. Oh I don't miss being that poor.
Ransom and I are going to start on an amp for him soon. I am finishing up a 12AX7 based boost pedal right now. The next amp build for me will be a combo with a 15" speaker, Trem, verb and a push pull 6v6 output. Sort of my dream rockabilly amp.
RossD
UltimaDork
5/25/17 1:25 p.m.
I'm on board with Jumper K Balls. You don't need a kit if you're patient and plan out what you need. That what I did for my first build, which was a Champ 5F1. Then I made a couple of stereo single ended amps.
I'll second the Classic Tone xfmers from Triode or Edcor http://edcorusa.com/class-x. Edcor is usually a bit cheaper, but shipping is a bit expansive and they take weeks to be delivered. So when I order from them, I'm usually buying iron for two or more projects into the future.
Thank you guys for the input, I really appreciate it.
My trepidation on the Fender clone came from something I read in the Weber book- something about having to be very careful of pedals that are used with the amp. But that is not the case. And it can certainly make sounds I like.
So a 5E3 clone it will be. I'll be picking up a chassis and used iron (Hammond) from a good friend this weekend. It will make for a place to start.
Party on.
Edit: If you guys are looking for tubes, please send me a message!
So this thing is moving along better than I expected it would.
I find myself ready to order a speaker, and am realizing I should have started researching my options sooner.
How in the name of all that is good do I choose what I want? I know I need a 12" 8ohm speaker. I know it needs to be at least 15 watts. And I know I have about $125 to spend. It is going into a Tweed Deluxe cabinet that I made.
My amp friend is swearing up and down I want a Celestion Lynchback- but that is his favorite and his favorites are the only way to go (to him).
Warehouse guitar speakers and webervst.com should both have sound clips. Both will do Jensen and celestion style speakers. My experience with WGS have been positive, my experience with Weber speakers is very good.
You also have modern celestion, jensen, hellatones and Eminence to choose from too.
In reply to Jumper K. Balls:
Thank you for those recommendations!
The process of choosing a speaker seems akin to choosing a brand of engine oil.
