let's talk Euro wagons

Volvo 850/V70, Saab 9-5 and M-B E-class are all in my sights at the moment. I think similar money will get a newer/nicer Saab, as their prices seem to still be on the way down after the brand dissolved. But I know the Volvo is a solid beast, and given my limited exposure to late-90s E-class (there's one in my extended family with 275k that literally looks new inside and runs flawlessly), they're good for the long haul.

I'm not necessarily looking for AWD, but I probably wouldn't turn it down. Is there anything to recommend or condemn Volvo or M-B AWD systems?

Any general issues to look out for on these cars with relatively high mileage?

During my search, I found most people who avoid AWD Volvos due to transfer case issues. The common problem I've found in the Volvos I looked at were "blown head gaskets." I wasn't ready to do two sacks on a car with a blown head gasket and who knows what else their not telling me.

If you're looking to do a V8 swap, avoid the AWD Volvos. A RWD setup is going to make that job a lot easier.

I'm a V70 newbie, since my sister had to have one and i'm the un-official family mechanic. What i've found so far with the FWD versions is electrical gremlins. Plan on replacing a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) an ABS module, O2 sensor and an ETM (electronic throttle module) if it hasn't been done already. As with any car, try to get the nicest one you can with service history if available.

The Volvo AWD "transfer case" (in quotes because it is not really a transfer case - but I do not really know what it is) is problematic and expensive to repair.

I do know that the rear driveshaft can be removed with no negative consequences, thereby making it fwd only.

I am not sure how to tell that one is having this trouble or what symptoms it will exhibit. Maybe others can chime in.

What I am trying to say is you may be able to buy a Volvo AWD cheaply because it is is need of "expensive AWD system repairs" and then just convert it to FWD.

Read up: http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20836

.... But lets not dilly-dally. You want this:

AWD Volvos I have heard are pains in the ass. I had an 850 turbo wagon and loved it. It started to fall apart as I owned it. A friend of mine's dad has been a Volvo mechanic for 20+ years and says that the early V70 is the way to go instead of an 850.

No swap, no funny business with this one. Going for boring and nice for a while. Soon my motorcycles will be back on the road so I can get my jollies out there, and further down the road I'll have the necessary monies - if not time - to play with cars. For now I need decent economy with a side of light utility, a relatively nice place to spend some time, and something that exudes a slightly more professional appearance than a beat up 24 year old pickup.

Volvo AWD issues noted. Any intel on M-B 4matic?

if you can look at all those.. how about a BMW 5 series wagon?

I'd have to go a bit older to stay in the same price range, but that's not a bad idea.

I'm looking at the lower end of the spectrum here, and especially around here, older Volvos and Saabs are really cheap, and there's an occasional high-mileage M-B outlier that drops down into that price range.

When you start looking, contact me before you check out the Volvos. I've already checked out the ones that have probably been sitting on cg for months.

I've got some experience with both the 9-5 and the E-class...I'd encourage you to consider broadening your search to include the W-124 chassis Mercedes- just a better beast than the w-210. The 4-matic I dealt with was nothing to deal with at all, but like anything, luck of the draw. It is an older car now, but if you are patient, they can be had with fairly low miles and excellent condition.

The 9-5 is a nice ride too- stick with the four cylinder cars. I'd be hard pressed to choose between this and a w124 e320, but if it were just for me (not my wife), then I'd go SAAB just for the manual transmission.

BMW all the way. M-B cars are not nearly as fun to drive and expensive to fix. The reliability is way worse on them too.

I've had customers with the Volvos...they are all pretty similar stories. They love their cars, but suffer massive repair bills to keep them going. And don't ever crash one.

Still wouldn't touch a Saab with someone else's money until the parts supply issue has been firmly resolved. We're still junking them for relatively minor accident damage because we can't get parts to fix them.

I currently DD an 850 wagon. Not AWD, but I don't really know I'd need it. It's pretty good in the snow with FWD. I've put about 35k miles on it in the past 20 months of ownership, the car now has 144k total miles. I love it. Right now it's sitting in the driveway due to an exhaust pipe that broke right behind the cat, which I plan to have welded back together. Otherwise, it's been relatively reliable. Put a new MAF in it, beyond that it's been all routine stuff...brakes, tires, etc... It does burn a good amount of oil, and fuel mileage is meh, but I love the car.

I dont think that the MB 4matic system is that easy to get parts for, other than that idk. I do know its the only w210 that you dont have to worry about the front spring perches falling off. A w124 300te would be fine though I would imagine.

I wouldn't buy the E-class for anything. Of those three choices I would consider a FWD V70 or the Saab.

Audi A6 Avant, unless you need something cheap and reliable.

One of my customers (of the home garage) has a 2000 (or '01) E320 wagon with 220k miles and looks new inside and out. In the 2 years I've been working on it all I've done is replace the belt tensioner, front brake pads, and clean out the EGR. The engine and transmission have never been opened. That's my only real experience with one, but it seems damn solid.

E46 Touring......granted those are a bit tricky to find cheap(stupid bmw enthusiasts)

I've got a 99 540iT. And love it. It gobbles up the miles. 80mph and its just starting to stretch its legs.

zachspeed wrote: I've got a 99 540iT. And love it. It gobbles up the miles. 80mph and its just starting to stretch its legs.

I never realized they did the V8 in the touring, all the ones I see are 6's

ddavidv wrote: Still wouldn't touch a Saab with someone else's money until the parts supply issue has been firmly resolved. We're still junking them for relatively minor accident damage because we can't get parts to fix them.

I understand the disruption in new parts availability, but I'm thinking that since they made 9-5s essentially unchanged for 14 years, used parts shouldn't be that hard to find.

In reply to alex:

Used parts will probably still be more expensive......I noticed my friends 9-3 was kinda salty for anything, even used from junk yards. I still wanted his BBS wheels on my Redline though.....those were nice

yamaha wrote: In reply to alex: Used parts will probably still be more expensive......I noticed my friends 9-3 was kinda salty for anything, even used from junk yards. I still wanted his BBS wheels on my Redline though.....those were nice

that's funny.. when I sold my saab's BBS wheels.. they went to a saturn down in MD.

I vote for a 9-5 wagon. I had a 99 9-5 for about 5 years and then my sister had it for another 4 years. They are a very well build car. You need to check for sludge in the pre 2004 cars. Early cars should have the upgraded PCV (series 6 i believe). If you look at one and have specific questions please let me know.

Chris

I also had a set of the BBS RK wheels on mine. I thought they looked very nice.

Chris