Letting Go Of God

JoeyM wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Don't feel that way, dude. My problem is not with believers per se, it's frustration over not being able to just say "I don't believe" in public without a backlash.

+1000 Thank you for saying so clearly and succinctly what so many of the rest of us feel.

No joke.

My mother took me to church as a small child because she thought it "was the right thing to do" even at 4-5 years old.............I couldn't get accept the whole concept.

That ignores that Christianity basically stole the story of Horus from Egypt and on and on and on.........it's too bad people just can't get over themselves.

Fletch...(and I mean this respectfully), you sort of bounded in here and missed the point in a way. The subject of discussion is really about understanding the contrary viewpoint even if you disagree. You are actually illustrating the subject by not understanding someone's distance from god; you went right into "It worked for me and I'd like to help you find it too".

Most of us shopped in that aisle. Didn't find a product we could believe in, so we left the store.

Pity us, pray for us, but don't chastise those of us who honestly came to where we are (and which, if you'd watch it, is the point of the movie I referenced). I know that wasn't your intent, but that is how it usually comes across. We're not looking for acceptance so much as understanding.

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

You nailed it, thanks.

New message deleted..

I tried to explain again about the social E36 M3..but ddavidv did it better.

Random, ADD thought: Why does it matter so much to believers that we don't believe? We (generally) don't care that they do.

ddavidv wrote: Random, ADD thought: Why does it matter so much to believers that we don't believe? We (generally) don't care that they do.

Matthew 28:19 & Mark 16:19

JoeyM wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Don't feel that way, dude. My problem is not with believers per se, it's frustration over not being able to just say "I don't believe" in public without a backlash.

+1000 Thank you for saying so clearly and succinctly what so many of the rest of us feel.

And another here. It's particularly bad here in the Deep South, where it seems everything revolves around religion and college football. Being an outspoken atheist and not a football fan is looked on as being something very akin to being a Communist Party USA member. You learn REAL fast it can most definitely be detrimental to career paths!

Curmudgeon wrote:

JoeyM wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Don't feel that way, dude. My problem is not with believers per se, it's frustration over not being able to just say "I don't believe" in public without a backlash.

+1000 Thank you for saying so clearly and succinctly what so many of the rest of us feel.

And another here. It's particularly bad here in the Deep South, where it seems everything revolves around religion and college football. Being an outspoken atheist and not a football fan is looked on as being something very akin to being a Communist Party USA member. You learn REAL fast it can most definitely be detrimental to career paths!

I'll have to say that it hasn't affected my career at all, though I don't really discuss religion at work. Then again, I've worked with mostly engineers and scientists.

As to the football thing, I've discovered that being a Clemson alumus that doesn't care about football makes people look at me as if I have two heads. I've definitely had to fake it a bit, especially when I lived in Columbia.

Curmudgeon wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

I tell people that for me, atheism wasn't a decision-it was a discovery.

Big +1

Ya know, that explains my 'conversion' (for lack of a better word) as well.

Also explains mine, but I ended up believing MORE, just not in any religious way. My leaving religion and attaining spiritual enlightenment I think of it this way: Have you ever had someone describe their house to you, then you go visit and it is nothing like your mind had pictured, and instead is way awesomerer?

Religion describes god as a 2-bedroom cape cod that needs constant maintenance and care. Once I got out from under that description and suppression, I discovered that she was more like the Fortress of Solitude.

rotard wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

JoeyM wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Don't feel that way, dude. My problem is not with believers per se, it's frustration over not being able to just say "I don't believe" in public without a backlash.

+1000 Thank you for saying so clearly and succinctly what so many of the rest of us feel.

And another here. It's particularly bad here in the Deep South, where it seems everything revolves around religion and college football. Being an outspoken atheist and not a football fan is looked on as being something very akin to being a Communist Party USA member. You learn REAL fast it can most definitely be detrimental to career paths!

I'll have to say that it hasn't affected my career at all, though I don't really discuss religion at work. Then again, I've worked with mostly engineers and scientists. As to the football thing, I've discovered that being a Clemson alumus that doesn't care about football makes people look at me as if I have two heads. I've definitely had to fake it a bit, especially when I lived in Columbia.

Aaaaand.... that's where I live now. Everyone is batE36 M3 for USC football here, I might as well not even exist at parties. I don't discuss religion around here at all; several years ago I saw someone get somewhat derailed due to their religion. It's one of those things that is not overt, but I overheard what was supposed to be a private conversation.

curtis73 wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

I tell people that for me, atheism wasn't a decision-it was a discovery.

Big +1

Ya know, that explains my 'conversion' (for lack of a better word) as well.

Also explains mine, but I ended up believing MORE, just not in any religious way. My leaving religion and attaining spiritual enlightenment I think of it this way: Have you ever had someone describe their house to you, then you go visit and it is *nothing* like your mind had pictured, and instead is way awesomerer? Religion describes god as a 2-bedroom cape cod that needs constant maintenance and care. Once I got out from under that description and suppression, I discovered that she was more like the Fortress of Solitude.

That's pretty much what my dad said. He was a believer, but was disgusted by organized religion.

JoeyM wrote:

ddavidv wrote: Random, ADD thought: Why does it matter so much to believers that we don't believe? We (generally) don't care that they do.

Matthew 28:19 & Mark 16:19

Unfortunately, it seems that most who believe they are doing this are doing it wrong. Telling me how I'm wrong or condemned to hell or anything like that does not increase the appeal of Christianity to me. Oddly enough, while trying to reconcile what I actually believe against what I was taught growing up, it was the writings of the Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh that did a lot more to redeem my opinion of Christianity than any Christians did.

I have a very close friend who is a youth pastor. He went on a mission to Haiti earlier this year to help rebuild houses after the destruction there. I see him as a great example of what Christianity can and should be. Yet he never tries to preach to or convert me. He lives the sort of life he feels he should as a Christian and lets his actions speak for him. I respect that and it has made me think more than anyone who wanted to save my immortal soul.

rotard wrote: I'll have to say that it hasn't affected my career at all, though I don't really discuss religion at work. Then again, I've worked with mostly engineers and scientists.

I was kind of lucky that way as well. A lot of people in media are pretty open. And Turner was so great about equality that I was actually out at work for 15yrs. and never had a problem.

rotard wrote: As to the football thing, I've discovered that being a Clemson alumus that doesn't care about football makes people look at me as if I have two heads. I've definitely had to fake it a bit, especially when I lived in Columbia.

True story: Company party--new guy from out of town says, "So, what are the churches like around here?"

"Don't know, man. Not religious."

"Oh, OK. Say, how do you get Georgia Tech tickets."

"Sorry, dude (with a friendly laugh), I'm not really into anything without wheels."

"That's cool. So, who's your favorite in NASCAR?.."

Some days you just can't win. We did end up having a friendly 15min conversation about road racing..he'd never heard of it before. He thought it was a neat idea.

Duke wrote: But, according to you, it's common to be "born religious"?

Yeah, I'd have to say it is.

OK, it's kind of indirect. It's a cultural thing. It's technically more of being born INTO a religious environment, which looks completely natural until it is unlearned. Like being born Southern, or Russian, or Democratic.

For this reason, the vast majority of Latin America is Catholic. Same for Italians.

They were born into Catholic families and culture, and raised immersed in it.

That's really what this thread is discussing when referencing "Letting go of God". It's the god of cultural religiousness.

That's not Christianity. No one is born Christian, nor born into Christianity.

friedgreencorrado wrote:

rotard wrote: I'll have to say that it hasn't affected my career at all, though I don't really discuss religion at work. Then again, I've worked with mostly engineers and scientists.

I was kind of lucky that way as well. A lot of people in media are pretty open. And Turner was so great about equality that I was actually out at work for 15yrs. and *never* had a problem.

rotard wrote: As to the football thing, I've discovered that being a Clemson alumus that doesn't care about football makes people look at me as if I have two heads. I've definitely had to fake it a bit, especially when I lived in Columbia.

True story: Company party--new guy from out of town says, "So, what are the churches like around here?" "Don't know, man. Not religious." "Oh, OK. Say, how do you get Georgia Tech tickets." "Sorry, dude (with a friendly laugh), I'm not really into anything without wheels." "That's cool. So, who's your favorite in NASCAR?.." Some days you just can't win. We did end up having a friendly 15min conversation about road racing..he'd never heard of it before. He thought it was a neat idea.

The only people I talk to who've heard of Road Atlanta are Road Racers.

Me: "Hey, we're racing at Road Atlanta in December. You should come check it out!"

Whoever - excited: "Cool. That's just south of Atlanta right?"

Me: "No, that'd be AMS. That's the NASCAR track."

Whoever - losing interest: "Oh."

Me: "This is a Road Race track. It's a mile longer than AMS, has big elevation changes, and RIGHT TURNS! They hold the Petit LeMans there!"

Whoever, now completely uninterested, and also confused: "Oh."

poopshovel wrote: Me: "Hey, we're racing at Road Atlanta in December. You should come check it out!" Whoever - excited: "Cool. That's just south of Atlanta right?" Me: "No, that'd be AMS. That's the NASCAR track."

Beer in the keyboard time! Man, if I had a dollar for every time I've had that conversation, I'd be running top 5 in Improved Touring S.

Thanks for keeping this discussion constructive. If it continues going this well maybe we'll have an election day thread next week.

I am not a particularly religious person, but I also can't bring myself to refer to myself as an "athiest." To me, acknowledging the lack of a divine presence takes the same kind of leap in logic that belief does. Until I see measurable proof either way, I'll remain comfortably agnostic.

I will provide the following insights into my thoughts, however:

1. Faith is the belief or trust in something with no empirical proof, only emotional certitude.

2. We all have faith in something.

3. Religion and spirituality can be a powerful tool to unite and uplift, or to divide and persecute. The former needs to happen more often, and be better publicized when it does. Doing the latter makes you a piece of crap.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote: Thanks for keeping this discussion constructive. If it continues going this well maybe we'll have an election day thread next week.

I don't know if we're ready for that yet. Is Tuesday a slow day for y'all?

JG Pasterjak wrote: I am not a particularly religious person, but I also can't bring myself to refer to myself as an "athiest." To me, acknowledging the lack of a divine presence takes the same kind of leap in logic that belief does. Until I see measurable proof either way, I'll remain comfortably agnostic.

Well, just remember..the two are not mutually exclusive. They're actually two different questions. Theism/atheism is about belief. Does one believe a supreme being (or beings) exist?

Gnosticism/agnosticism is about knowledge. Is it possible to know if there are beings who exist outside of the natural universe?

EDIT: Sorry folks! Dang, I got off topic. OTOH, do I get extra credit on my man card for "mansplaining" to other men?

JG Pasterjak wrote: Thanks for keeping this discussion constructive. If it continues going this well maybe we'll have an election day thread next week.

Please not until after the elections. I like having a place on the internet free of pre-election vitriol.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Well, just remember..the two are not mutually exclusive. They're actually two different questions. Theism/atheism is about belief. Does one believe a supreme being (or beings) exist? Gnosticism/agnosticism is about knowledge. Is it *possible* to know if there are beings who exist outside of the natural universe?

That's actually a really excellent explanation that I had not heard before. I had not really though of the concepts as two separate entities.

jg

JG Pasterjak wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Well, just remember..the two are not mutually exclusive. They're actually two different questions. Theism/atheism is about belief. Does one believe a supreme being (or beings) exist? Gnosticism/agnosticism is about knowledge. Is it *possible* to know if there are beings who exist outside of the natural universe?

That's actually a really excellent explanation that I had not heard before. I had not really though of the concepts as two separate entities. jg

Cool! Glad it helped. I thought I'd just floundered the thread, since I started talking about existence stuff instead of Julia's show.

JG Pasterjak wrote:

friedgreencorrado wrote: Well, just remember..the two are not mutually exclusive. They're actually two different questions. Theism/atheism is about belief. Does one believe a supreme being (or beings) exist? Gnosticism/agnosticism is about knowledge. Is it *possible* to know if there are beings who exist outside of the natural universe?

That's actually a really excellent explanation that I had not heard before. I had not really though of the concepts as two separate entities. jg

They are definitely different concepts, and I'm glad that FGC posted that....It is much easier to explain to people than the Hard atheist-soft atheist paradigm that I usually use if I am pulled into a discussion with a theist

Same here. I always thought an agnostic was someone who was on the fence.

I would like to stop all the name calling . I'm not an "atheist". That at is a word religious people use to pin me to a demographic. It is a word that makes it seem like the same thing only a little different for theists. We don't go around saying people are non-gay or non-retards. Why go around calling yourself atheist? Don't get the wrong idea either - this is not a political correctness wishy-washy wordplay. That is fascist construct I'll leave for another argument. If I am an athiest to someone, it defines the relationship we can have to an opposing one - but in all likelyhood I have more in common with them than I do in opposition. We never get to that part of the discussion though if I am an "atheist" right off the bat. We never get to our shared admiration for the waitresses firm yet supple buttocks. We never agree that Tony Stewart is awesome but trapped in a job with golden handcuffs otherwise he would be kicking ass in Grand Am. We never agree the TSA needs to go.

I prefer the term rational thinker. Maybe skeptic. It is harder to argue nonsense with "rational thinker guy" whether it be how to beat the lotto odds or get favors from imaginary friends in the sky because it defines the relationship up front as a rational one. Or, atleast it does not define it as directly oppositional like declaring you are 100% for late term abortion but only if you can look it in the eyes. Or something like that. BRB, scotch is empty.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I prefer the term rational thinker....

So, the religious folks would then be "irrational thinkers", right?

Don't think THAT is gonna help get away from "name calling".