Letting Go Of God

Curmudgeon wrote: 10 dicked George Washington in pink chiffon? Were you peeking into my dreams?

NSFW, but funny as berkeley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iVsdRbhnc

1988RedT2 wrote: I'll just leave this here, in the perhaps futile hope that just one of you godless heathen will read it. http://gma.yahoo.com/heaven-real-saw-scientist-says-183522717--abc-news-health.html

NDEs have been induced artificially with ketamine. It's an older study, but the only one I have bookmarked.
ftp://nmedia.net/pub/old/drugs/nicholas/ketamine.html

There's obviously much more research that needs to be done, but I'm still betting that whatever's happening here has to do with tissue & electricity.

Here's Dr. Alexander's article, for anyone who'd like to read the original:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/07/proof-of-heaven-a-doctor-s-experience-with-the-afterlife.html

To me, a lot of his imagery sound no more "otherworldly" that the stories I've heard from people using hallucinogenics. I'm not saying he didn't feel something powerful & profound, I just think human understanding of neurobiology is in its infancy. It's certainly a weird place between consciousness & unconsciousness, but I think it's much more plausible that there's no simple on/off switch between the two.

Daniel Dennett on consciousness, 2003:
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_dennett_on_our_consciousness.html

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: 10 dicked George Washington in pink chiffon? Were you peeking into my dreams?

NSFW, but funny as berkeley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iVsdRbhnc

Beat me to the punch. "I hear he's got like, 40 goddamned dicks."

poopshovel wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: 10 dicked George Washington in pink chiffon? Were you peeking into my dreams?

NSFW, but funny as berkeley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iVsdRbhnc

Beat me to the punch. "I hear he's got like, 40 goddamned dicks."

That thing was funny as hell.

Curmudgeon wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: 10 dicked George Washington in pink chiffon? Were you peeking into my dreams?

NSFW, but funny as berkeley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iVsdRbhnc

Beat me to the punch. "I hear he's got like, 40 goddamned dicks."

That thing was funny as hell.

YOU FOOL! There is no Hell!

There's no devil, only God when he's drunk.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Best thing to do is, when you find the animal in the glue trap, and they're still alive, douse them in gasoline and then light them on fire. The glue melts, and then they can run free, but they're on fire now. Just don't do it in a room full of oily rags and loose cardboard.

Am I the only one who read this like the old "Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey" bit on SNL?

With regard to dreams, comas, near death, and the like, look up DMT sometime.

I finally made it in on page 9. The title of this thread alone saddens me. If it were "letting go of religion", I would say do it, it's for the best. I am not here to argue, to criticize, to point fingers, to force my beliefs. I am here to tell how great God is and how much He loves all of us. He changed my life in a way I cannot describe. Over the decades, we have let go of God and his instruction and care and now look at us. We are in economic and moral bankruptcy. We have went our own way and we are becoming desolate. I pray for you all that you let not anyone or anything turn you away from God. I am not going to argue or debate in this thread, but will offer to talk to anyone who may have questions. I know what it's like to not have all the answers, but you don't have to have all the answers. So let go of religion and get a hold of God.

Fletch1 wrote: I finally made it in on page 9. The title of this thread alone saddens me.

I'm saddened by the fact that you think we need to all have the same belief system as you. I understand that you feel strongly about your beliefs, and that's good. We don't all need to be the same, though.

Fletch1 wrote: We are in economic and moral bankruptcy. We have went our own way and we are becoming desolate.

What is this we E36 M3? Are you french?

Don't waste any lucky rabbit foot magic on me... I am just fine.

Fletch1 wrote: Over the decades, we have let go of God and his instruction and care and now look at us. We are in economic and moral bankruptcy.

There are some horrible things (e.g. cannibal cop) happening right now in the world, but that was true in the past (e.g. Elizabeth Báthory , ~600+ victims.)

People who do not believe that others' lives/wants/desires/urges have value are a problem. It doesn't take religion to see that treating other people like you would want to be treated (an idea that is not unique to any religion) would end a lot of the badness happening in the world.

Fletch1 wrote: I am not here to argue, to criticize, to point fingers, to force my beliefs.

Thank you for that. And please, trust me when I say I'm not trying to argue below, or force my beliefs. But it is a subject I have definite ideas about, and I like to discuss it.

Fletch1 wrote: I am here to tell how great God is and how much He loves all of us. He changed my life in a way I cannot describe.

But did he? Or was it your subconscious mind finally overcoming your conscious mind - or vice versa? Certainly the brain plays tricks on us to get it to do what it wants/needs, sometimes.

Fletch1 wrote: Over the decades, we have let go of God and his instruction and care and now look at us. We are in economic and moral bankruptcy.

Because people haven't been killing each other and treating each other brutally all along, even during times where religion was powerful? People have always - and still are - killing each other in the name of religion . That's not the only reason, of course, but it has featured prominently throughout history. People kill each other for religious AND non-religious reasons all the time, but I don't see religion (or god, if you want to keep them separate) doing much to prevent it.

I'm interested to know to what particular period of moral non-bankruptcy are you referring. Did you mean the neolithic tribal days when morality was the largest club, and humans were sacrificed to god? Or the Dark Ages, when the Christian church ruled with an iron fist, the world lived in abject poverty (except for the chosen few) and scientific advancement was set back a thousand years on purpose ? The 17th and 18th centuries (AKA the Age of Enlightenment, when god lost sway, and huge advances were made in science and human rights? The 1800s, when homosexuals were jailed or worse, and "morality" was so overbearing that it spawned not only Jack the Ripper but his desperate victims too? Are you thinking fondly of the 1950s, where the image of whitebread, Leave-It-To-Beaver Pleasantville concealed McCarthyism, racism, and lynchings? I'm sure you wouldn't have much good to think about anything since the '60s.

Or have we been morally bankrupt since The Fall?

I don't feel morally bankrupt. I treat people - friends, family, and strangers alike - with the care and courtesy that I would like to be treated. I don't use violence except in self-defense, and despite the "morally bankrupt" world, I've rarely had to do that. I don't lie, cheat, steal, or indulge to excess. I love my wife and kids and I have never been unfaithful.

I didn't need a god to tell me that's they way I should live.

Fletch1 wrote: We have went our own way and we are becoming desolate.

Who is becoming desolate? I'm not. I am happy and secure in my relationships with friends and family. I am confident in my ability to overcome whatever life throws at me, good or bad. I live in a world that can overcome almost anything, except the persistence of outmoded, old ways of thinking. I am willing to go down struggling if I can't overcome, and accept the loss with grace. It's called life; you live it, you do your best, you die. Why do I need anything more than that? Indeed, how could I be so greedy as to ask for more than that? I've already gotten as much as I can reasonably ask for, just by being born.

Fletch1 wrote: I pray for you all that you let not anyone or anything turn you away from God.

I sincerely appreciate the sentiment you are offering, but I see nothing in my world that A) indicates a god exists, B) gives me any idea a god would care about individuals at all, or C) would be improved by adding an unknown, unknowable authority figure to tell me what to do, or to give me the courage to live with the vague promise/threat of some kind of afterlife. I live life because it is worth living. When it's over, I'll be dead, and won't exist any more.

I'm fine with that. Again, I can't imagine the burning need for anything more - isn't that enough as it is?

Fletch1 wrote: I am not going to argue or debate in this thread, but will offer to talk to anyone who may have questions. I know what it's like to not have all the answers, but you don't have to have all the answers. So let go of religion and get a hold of God.

In my experience, it is being scared of NOT having the answers that drives people to god. Any old port in a storm, as they say. People who need some kind of grounding seem to invent something to ground themselves on.

Duke wrote:

Fletch1 wrote: snip

Good response.

Wow, I now know how a dartboard feels. As I said, I do not believe on forcing my beliefs or arguing about it. I simply saw a chance to stick up for a God that I believe in. We all have something we feel strongly about, I know you guys understand that. I come to you guys when I need car help, and you guys have been a great help and most of you know much more than I do and I appreciate your time. I wanted to extend my hand/ears/heart in something that has helped me in my life, that's all. And no Giant Purple Snorklewacker, I'm not French, I actually failed that class in high school

Fletch1 wrote: I wanted to extend my hand/ears/heart in something that has helped me in my life, that's all.

And that's how I took it... and replied in kind!

In reply to Duke:

Yes you did, thank you.

Datsun1500 wrote: What if there are many Gods

I heal the sick. I feed the hungry. I control the temperature, command large wheeled transportation devices. I ask in return only fealty and love.

To my dogs... I am a God.

The cone is my marker,
I shall turn in;
He leads me to the apex;
He marks my course.
He leads me to trail brake and turn
For the time clock's sake.

Yea though I reach the limits of adhesion
Within the chicane,
I fear no spin;
for You are with me; Your R-compounds and alloys, they comfort me.

Surely smoothness and low times shall follow me
All the races of the season;
And I shall dwell on the podium of the
Winners forever.

Fletch1 wrote: Wow, I now know how a dartboard feels.

Don't feel that way, dude. My problem is not with believers per se, it's frustration over not being able to just say "I don't believe" in public without a backlash.

Fletch1 wrote: As I said, I do not believe on forcing my beliefs or arguing about it. I simply saw a chance to stick up for a God that I believe in. We all have something we feel strongly about, I know you guys understand that. I come to you guys when I need car help, and you guys have been a great help and most of you know much more than I do and I appreciate your time. I wanted to extend my hand/ears/heart in something that has helped me in my life, that's all.

I appreciate what you intended, but that door's pretty much shut for me. I grew up in a religious home. I was skeptical of my religion's claims from an early age, and the more I learned about the world around me, the less I believed. I tell people that for me, atheism wasn't a decision-it was a discovery. I can't go back, even if I wanted to. And honestly, sometimes I do want to (it's a cold, dark feeling seeing a dead friend or relative being laid to rest and knowing you'll never see them again).

I don't really even discuss the "Question of Existence" anymore, even with friends. It's just not important to me anymore. Like I said, I'm more concerned with the social treatment of atheists than I am with the philosophical aspects of atheism.

Try Julia's show. She does a much better job of explaining this kind of stuff than I every could.

Fletch1 wrote: And no Giant Purple Snorklewacker, I'm not French, I actually failed that class in high school

You lose it if you don't use it, anyway. I took it for two years, passed with flying colors, and all I can remember now are a few curse words. Maybe I should have taken Spanish instead?

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

Thanks for the kind reply friedgreentomato..I mean corrado I know it's hard letting go of friends/family and I know some things just don't make sense. You mentioned you do sometimes want to go back. The prodigal son did, and was welcomed back home. I can't make anyone else's decision, and don't try to. As a Christian, I also would not think less of you or hate you for being an atheist, that would go against what I'm taught. I can lend a hand at things like this better than I can on how to rebuild an engine. This world is crazy, has been for a long time. If you or anyone ever wanted to talk about things, I can always be messaged. If you don't want to talk, then don't bother me Oh yeah, I took Spanish too. That didn't turn out good either. I can only speak English and Hillbilly.

I tell people that for me, atheism wasn't a decision-it was a discovery.

Big +1

poopshovel wrote:

I tell people that for me, atheism wasn't a decision-it was a discovery.

Big +1

Ya know, that explains my 'conversion' (for lack of a better word) as well.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Don't feel that way, dude. My problem is not with believers per se, it's frustration over not being able to just say "I don't believe" in public without a backlash.

+1000 Thank you for saying so clearly and succinctly what so many of the rest of us feel.