longish story - moral dilemma?

scenario: we get hired to finish a job that another contractor has "abandoned"

by "abandoned" i mean he has not been there in months, took upwards of 30k cash up front for the complete job, paid in full, and got about 70% done with each phase before moving on. he has not been there in over a month. this started in july, and for our company it would have been a 5-6 week job.

here is where it gets hairy. the guy left quite a few tools. we packed them all up neatly and put them in the garage, changed the locks on the house, and left his lock on the garage so he could come by and collect his things. we informed the customer that we would do this before he signed with us to complete the job, and he agreed it was best to go about it that way so as not to create an issue.

monday we started, tomorrow we will be finished with all but a door that got ordered and won't be in for a week. i won't go into how much work we have reversed but i'll drop right here that he put new allure vinyl planks in the bathroom directly over black mold covered old underlayment, to give you an idea of the quality of the stuff that was done before we got here.

customer is undergoing lots of medical stuff right now so he did not call the guy. he gets a call yesterday afternoon from the guy saying he went to the house monday to make a list to finish and has been there all day tuesday and wednesday making tons of progress. which is straight BS. customer is PO'ed and does not tell him someone else is working there.

so customer calls us and says "make sure you clean out my garage friday when you leave so i can sell the house, take it all and put what you don't want on the treelawn"

do you take the tools?

You could be charged with theft. Leave them in the yard.

Ethically no.

Legally? Check with someone.

Are you familiar with a "mechanic's lean"? If the owner goes belly up, the mechanic who has time, money and sweat in the car, gets the car before any other creditor.

You have no investment in this guy's tools. Let the homeowner deal with it. You did what you were hired to do. Did it well.

Move along.

Consider your toolbox that much more full. He left it for a month, that's long enough for a mechanic to get a lien on a car.

This has happened to me at rental properties. Once, I tried everything to contact the guy and allow him to collect his stuff, but he was incommunicado for weeks. (turns out he was in jail) I contacted the local police, explained the situation, and they said they would consider the equipment abandoned. They just kinda unofficially looked the other way, and the guy never tried to get his stuff back so it wasn't an issue.

I don't know how long it has to be to be considered abandoned, but the owner (not you) should be the one to deal with it. Log how long it has been since the guy was actually on site, how long the contract was supposed to be for, how many times he tried to contact him to collect his tools, and his deadline for renting the place. The one red flag is that the owner never officially terminated the contract and fired the guy and clearly told him to collect his tools. Even a scam artist has a reasonable expectation that he will be able to collect his tools after being terminated.

Keep in mind too, what has he been doing while his tools sat there? Most likely, he was using old tools that he stole from someone else, had no intention of ever finishing, and is looking to collect insurance money for the loss of his "new, professional contractor-grades" tools.

Any time I come across a grey situation like this, I ask myself if "x" is worth worrying about my integrity, then move on feeling good about it.

I would say leave them.

leave 'em in the yard.

Laws vary with location, and I am not a lawyer.

My take on things. The tools are not yours, you are not legally entitled to take them. They are on the site where you are working, and things on the site belong on the site and are under the control of the person who owns the site.

I would not, under any conditions, take posession of those tools. Especially with the owner of those tools now making contact with the property owner and claiming to be working on the site.

Nope. Let the customer keep them if they want, but they're not yours. You did a job, you got paid for it, don't get involved in a dispute that isn't yours.

In case this is still undecided: Follow your customer's instructions. Take nothing that does not belong to you.

Datsun1500 wrote: Moral dilemmas are usually easy. If ya gotta ask if its the right thing to do...... I wouldn't touch them, I wouldn't even move them from the garage. It's between the homeowner and the contractor.

This. It's tempting, yes, but whatever you get from it won't be worth the potential pain in the ass from the other contractor, not to mention loss of self-respect.

mazdeuce wrote: Nope. Let the customer keep them if they want, but they're not yours. You did a job, you got paid for it, don't get involved in a dispute that isn't yours.

100% this. Why get in the middle of his conflict with the former contractor?

Duke wrote: This. It's tempting, yes, but whatever you get from it won't be worth the potential pain in the ass from the other contractor, not to mention loss of self-respect.

This too. It's not your dispute so don't become a party to it.

Let me speak as a lawyer: it would be theft to exercise control over someone's property no matter how you came into possession of the property. As others have said, it aint worth it and yes, usually, if you have to ask, dont. The homeowner might have depending on state law a right of lien(but I doubt it) and maybe a claim of setoff(but if he hasnt confronted the contractor before now, he too is on slippery ground). Be glad you got paid and expect to be called as a witness in the case in a few months once lawyers do get involved.

pinchvalve wrote: This has happened to me at rental properties. Once, I tried everything to contact the guy and allow him to collect his stuff, but he was incommunicado for weeks. (turns out he was in jail) I contacted the local police, explained the situation, and they said they would consider the equipment abandoned. They just kinda unofficially looked the other way, and the guy never tried to get his stuff back so it wasn't an issue.

This. Contact the police, explain the situation and ask if the tools are considered abandoned or not.

patgizz wrote: scenario: we get hired to finish a job that another contractor has "abandoned" he has not been there in over a month the guy left quite a few tools. . omer is undergoing lots of medical stuff right now so he did not call the guy. he gets a call yesterday afternoon from the guy saying he went to the house monday to make a list to finish and has been there all day tuesday and wednesday making tons of progress. which is straight BS. cstomer is PO'ed and does not tell him someone else is working there. so customer calls us and says "make sure you clean out my garage friday when you leave so i can sell the house, take it all and put what you don't want on the treelawn" do you take the tools?

Ok, so this other contractor WAS NEVER FIRED.

Locks were changed

Ne never came to the site in over a month.

Yeah, despite the other contractor being a sheister, from his perspective (and justly) it would be blatant theft.

As far as he know he still has the job, right?

First step - call the Police. Go from there. I would think leaving the guys stuff unsecured could get your company and/or the home owner in hot water if the other contractor wants to be an shiny happy person. (Not a lawyer, yada yada)

homeowner's situation, not yours. leave them alone.

First let me say that I am not offended by any of the posts prior to or after mine but the cops are NOT lawyers and not experts on the law. Their advice is worth what you pay for it. Even I will qualify my statements by saying I only know Tn law. Walk away or get good legal advice before you act.

As a contractor myself I am always amazed at how many times homeowners will try to get us involved in disputes with other contractors. I see this as a pretty clear situation. The issue is between the previous contractor and the homeowner.

To hell with legality, this one falls under ethics that you should have in the first place. 1. Did you buy these tools, A. Yes(have a nice day), B. No, see #2 2. Did you steal these tools, A. Yes(cops are coming), B. No(have a nice day)

I wouldn't even touch the tools in that garage, leave them there.

I agree with "Between the homeowner and the contractor" and I would leave them in the garage.

I'd have photoed the shoddy work and all the tools too just to CYA in case of backlash later.

Datsun1500 wrote: I wouldn't even put them on the lawn. The homeowner needs to tell the guy to get them by x date. If anyone puts them on the lawn and they go missing, you can be held responsible (according to a judge Judy show I saw a few years ago....)

this

I'd reason w/ the property owner that he needs to sort the tool issue out w/ the absent contractor.

Yep, it's between the homeowner and the previous contractor. I'd bow out gracefully. Now, if the other contractor misses his (properly notified) 'remove by' date and the tools legally become the property of the homeowner... if he wants to give them to you...

The tools are not yours.

You don't have the right to take them, and you don't have the right to move them to where they might be stolen or otherwise compromised.

Would you like it if I put your tools on the lawn?

Additionally, it is possible the owner still has an obligation to the contractor he first contracted with. He committed to paying him a certain amount, and never terminated the contract. Have you been paid yet?

I see absolutely nothing grey about this. No moral dilemma whatsoever.