looking for a 30 something rifle

So with my new found employment, I've decided my next weapon purchase will be a rifle. I'm looking for a semi auto, wood stock, chambered in a versatile round. Something that won't break the bank to shoot, but is powerful enough to use for hunting or home defense if need be.

My goal is to make a semi auto scout rifle. Here's what I'm looking at.

Ruger Mini 30 - $900 ish Supposedly Ruger has some horrible hit or miss quality on barrels

Springfield M1A Scout Squad or SOCOM - $1400 ish Reliable, beautiful, expensive. Would take longer to save up for.

FN FAL - $??? Sort of a wild card. Options seem to be pay out the ass for ones, or take a chance on Century Arms. I haven't heard anything good about Century Arms.

SKS - $200 - $400 Cheap alternative. Easy to get, easy to own.

All of these rifles are either 7.62x51mm or 39mm. These are affordable rounds with a wide variety of choices, good ballistics. So what do you guys think?

.30 rifle?

only one will do.

Aren't there some .308 AK variants that are silly cheap.

I picked up a Mini 14 awhile back, but haven't had the opportunity to fire it yet. I understand that the new design, with serial numbers starting with 580- have addressed the accuracy problems which occurred in previous versions. It seems that the barrel getting hot during bouts of unrestrained rapid-fire blasting results in it flopping around like a well-cooked noodle. I don't know if the 580- series improvements apply to the Mini 30 as well.

picked up a russian sks in nice shape with 4 stocks and over 700 rounds of new ammo last week for $300 - hard to beat the price

I have owned both an AK-47 and an SKS. I prefer the AK. Parts are easier to find and box magazines are a plus. The 20 round SKS magazine is junk and the detachable SKS magazines leave alot to be desired. Good Romanian AK-47's are only a few more dollars than an SKS.

I've never owned a mini-30, but the mini-14 had a lot of bad reports on reliability. Like, if it wasn't for the A-Team TV show, no one would have ever bought one. Compared to an AK? No comparison. AK. Or 3 AK's for the same price and you'll have 30 times the rifle. Oh, and Ruger has always had hit or miss barrels. "They say" even the No.1's can have a crap barrel.

M1A: You priced ammo? Reasonable reliability, but not great, from what I read. Excellent accuracy.

FNFAL: Ammo costs again. More reliable (from what I read) than a M1A, good accuracy.

SKS: Excellent rifle. Stick with the 10 round factory fixed mag.

AK: The best at what it does: Reasonable accuracy (~4 MOA), world's best reliability, simple enough for the kid just off the potato farm to maintain and not break. Reasonable (sort of, today) ammo costs.

Also consider a M1 Garand. Reasonable accuracy, excellent reliability, powerful cartridge with lots of loads available. Costs are down these days. Capable of taking all North American game, but may be a little light on grizzly bear.

What are you planning on hunting? 7.62x39 is OK up to deer ("they say," I don't hunt.) 308/30-06 is good for about anything, but over penetration for home defense is a serious consideration with 308/30-06, less so but still worrisome with 7.62.39.

Drewsifer wrote: My goal is to make a semi auto scout rifle.

Good luck on making an honest-to-Jeff-Cooper semiauto Scout Rifle. It's hard enough with a lighter bolt action.

The "classic" criteria includes .308 Winchester (7.62X51 NATO)(with exceptions for the "frail" and people where military calibers are banned), 3kg max (later changed to 3.5kg), 1m max, intermediate eye-relief scope, etc.

If you'll settle for what purists would call a pseudoscout, I'd sure look at the SKS platform. Whittle away a pound or too with a synthetic stock and no bayonet. There are 'smiths who'll improve the trigger. Getting the scope low might be an issue,

My scout was based on a .308 Remington 788 bolt action, with a Redfield FrontIER scope intended for a '94 Winchester. It was accurate and quick, but the mount wasn't up to .308 in a light rifle.

I'm looking for an AK this week myself. Don't forget to scout out the pawn shops, too. I scored a Winchester (Sears Roebuck made) 30-30 for $180 several years ago. Refinished the stock, great rifle.

Out of left field... I'm loving the heck out of my Karabiner Model 1931 (K31 Swiss). Uses 7.5x55mm Schmidt-Rubin, which is basically .308, ballistically. Super accurate and a ton of fun. Plus the Swiss surplus stuff is about $0.40 a round, expensive except that it is practically match grade.

See here for more info:

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=31764

http://www.surplusrifle.com/swissk31/index.asp

http://www.swissrifles.com/

The SKS's I've been exposed to couldn't hold groups smaller than a pie plate at 50 yd, you can't go wrong with that Springfield M1 but 30.06 has gotten pretty spendy, the AK is what it is, and I really like my FAL. Take a look at DS arms and see what they offer and then look on Gunbroker.com for deals and yeah, stay away from Century. The only thing I have against it and most all the other rifles mentioned here is, if I were ever to have to use it for home defense, ye gods the noise... inside a house, you gotta be kidding. Eardrums gone in 1 shot I bet. I think any of the .30 calibers are gonna be a bit much for any reasonable home invasion scenario, really. 7.62 will go right through the bad guy, the rest of the house, your car, the landscaping, a tree or two, and end up who knows where. Out my way, if the zombie hoarde arrives, I'd use it to keep them off the perimeter, but if I ever have to deal with a home invasion thing, I'll be reaching for the shotgun.

My scout rifle seen here many times. Scope mount is different on it now and needs a little touch up paint where the rings were moved, also have a different sling on it as well.

Now then why are you limiting yourself to wood furniture on the rifle? These days that actually limits you from quite a few great guns. Heck if you were open to plastic I would say get a .308 AR-10, they are a great platform and very accurate. Next up I would suggest the M1A rifle series which can be very reliable and accurate though some may have issues (I never had issues with my Springfield Match). The Garand is another consideration though you may fall victim to "Garand Thumb". Aside from that the SKS is another good contender just do your research first on the various makes and choose wisely, same deal with an AK, they are not all built equally. My AK is a type 56, has the heavier barrel, receiver and beefed up internals.

Good luck in your hunt.

A scout rifle should be simple, accurate, compact and versatile.

Well what are you intending to do with said rifle. A REAL scout rifle, as recommended by Jeff Cooper, is a bolt action probably in 308. 7-08, or 270 that can hit things at 450yrds. Because its a scout rifle it needs to be under 7ish lbs as anything over that starts to get kinda heavy.

Some of the guns mentioned will have s-ome difficulty doing that. The M1A is an awesome gun but they are on the heavy side 8-9+, ditto its daddy the Garand 11-12 sans optic.

AKs are in that range weight wise but their caliber, accuracy, and ergonomics are lacking. I put most AK's at 3-5 inch guns conservatively and the bullet is neither inherently accurate or a good long range bullet. At 400 yrds the 7.62x39 has dropped 45 inches and is packing only 500lbs of energy or less. I also can't stand how they feel but that's an opinion.

I know little about FAL's other than most people don't know what they are and they seem to have less support than some of the other options mentioned here. Still want one though.

The new mini 14's i hear are much better than the old ones. most will now shoot 1.5-3 inches which is where they should have been 20 years ago imo. I don't have a clue how the mini 30 shoots.

If you still wanted to stick with the com blok 7.63 one option that no one has mentioned is the VZ. 58

The Cezch thought their was enough wrong with the AK that they designed the VZ. 58 a gun with better accuracy, better ergos, and a lighter weight that the AK. Can be had anywhere from $600 to $1000.

Dr. Hess mentioned the M1 Garand. Good choice. Join CMP,get one, & own a piece of history.

I own an M1A, and unless you buy a Match or Super Match and bed the receiver to the stock, they're not especially accurate out of the box. The sights are fantastic, though--accurize the rifle and the sights will keep up all the way. 7.62 NATO ammo is hovering around 50 cents/round for brass cased stuff, and I wouldn't run the steel Russian junk in a $1500 rifle. The M1A is quite heavy, as others have mentioned, and the Socom variant, thanks to its muzzle brake, is so loud that a lot of shooters don't even enjoy shooting it, even with ear protection.

I can't comment on any of the other weapons except to say that the AK has never impressed me.

If I were to start over in the 7.62 world, I'd get an AR platform carbine in that caliber. If price were no object, the SCAR-H might be sweet, too.

Like I said, I want a rifle that I can afford to shoot often and is chambered in a round that could be used for hunting or SHTF type situation. I want wood furniture because I like the way it looks. I'm not against a black scary gun, but its just not really what I'm looking for with this.

And yes, I know Jeff Cooper called for a light weight bolt action for his Scout rifle idea. That's why I specified a semi auto Scout. I just don't feel a bolt action has than much advantage over a semi auto in most situations. If I was going to be doing a lot of long range shooting yeah. And while the rifles I listed are not feather weights, I don't think they weigh enough that I would consider them to heavy.

I suppose it doesn't HAVE to be in 7.62, or .30 something. Those just seemed like common popular rounds that meet the requirements I have. I hadn't really thought of an AK. Something worth looking into.

Also, no Garands. I wouldn't mind having one, but it's too heavy, and I would feel bad about messing with it.

I'd need to know your other criteria before I can recommend a rifle. "30 cal" covers a lot of territory in cartridges--as was mentioned, it depends on what you're going to do with it. IMHO ammo will probably start to drop in price SLIGHTLY over the next couple of years, depending on how bad the economy goes and what level of concern there is.

However, my $.02: Stupid Cheap Bolt = Mosin Nagant

Stupid Cheap Semi = SKS (My Norinco SKS would regularly group the size of a quarter at 50 yards with cheap steel-case ammo)

Moderate Bolt = Ishapore Enfield/Savage 10/Rem 700

Moderate Semi = Garand

Expensive Bolt = Probably some sort of Tactical Rem 700

Expensive Semi = M1A/FNFAL/LR-308

Of the those, if I could have only one rifle I'd lean to the Moderates. The bolt guns would be cheaper to shoot with surplus 308 but the Garand is tough to argue against given its reputation as a "combat" arm and the power of the '06 cartridge. I really like the Ishapore but they're tough to find now. I got mine, though.

However, if circumstances left me with nothing more than a Mosin or an SKS I'd be more worried about MY performance than the rifle...

Just re-read your post and realized you're leaning Semi. I haven't heard much through the grapevine, but you might look seriously at a Saiga (AK-47) chambered in 308 Win. Haven't heard anything about how accurate (or not) they are. I would NOT look at a Mini-30, based on my contacts.

Rock River Arms LAR-8 (.308). Its kinda heavy though, but I got it new under $1100. It a tack driver. I'll be using it for deer hunting in a couple weeks. I'd have to echo the shotgun for home defense, though.

I just snagged a Remington 742 semi .308 with a nice Leupold scope (fixed 6x ) for $400. Cheap rounds, deadly reliable, and one of my favorite guns. I have a Model 94 Winchester .32 for heavier brush deer hunting, and an 8mm Mauser for general mid-range deer hunting (no scope) and I use the .308 in Texas. I instantly dropped an Axis deer at 280 yds, but I feel just as comfortable shooting 50-100 yds as well. I have some reloads from my Dad with a bit heavier ball that does very well in light brush, but more than a few branches and its not going to stay on course.

Reliable, cheap, easy to find ammo, accurate, user-friendly. Get one.

I'm telling you, go with quirky fun, the K31 Swiss FTW!!!

The bolt mechanism is a work of art, and you might get lucky and find a little slip of paper under the buttplate with a handwritten name and address of the serviceman that carried it in the forties or fifties.

Mosin Nagants tend to be hit or miss. I've been doing quite a bit of shooting lately, and a friend of mine has a few. His 91/30 does pretty well at 300yds, he can hit a 12in square steel plate with surplus ammo and open sights. My VZ24 is slightly more accurate (also shooting surplus ammo and open sights). The Garand is more accurate than either of those two, but I think alot of that has to do with the aperture sights.

I'd look at a Mosin and sporterize it of you're on a budget. They can be had for less than $100, surplus ammo is cheap, and they're pretty tough. If possible, get a pre/early war rifle/get the nicest one you can find.

What would you see yourself hunting?

I got a Mosin a while back just for the heck of it. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, though. It's old and crude, but I just think it's really cool. How many rifles come with a bayonet that's also a screw driver?

Having grew up around target shooting and being career army, I tend to shy away from military based weapons (says the guy that owns both an M1 Garand and an M1 Carbine). 30-30, choices are Winchester or Marlin. Had a winchester in the past, good basic rifle that can take abuse. Currently have a Marlin. To bad you're out now, .308 is 7.62 nato. I have a Remington in this, model 788 w/glass-bedded stock, scope and reworked trigger. I call it my sniper rifle as it will reach out and touch. And I have rounds for it literally loaded for bear, I got it when I was stationed at Fairbanks, Alaska. 30-06, probably the cheaper option. Been around for years, proven and plentiful. Most of the newer calibers often takes specific ammo. Bolt action isn't bad when you get used to it and is usually preferred for consistancy.

I had an uncle tht moved to Colorado back in the early-mid 60s. He bought a semi auto rifle in 308. I swear I thought it was a Winchester, but I can't find the model number. It had a scope and was pretty accurate. I never shot it because I was like 10 YO at the time and all the grown ups complained when they shot it.

For the $80 you can get them all day for, the Moist Nugget is a fun little beater.

Of course it's not semi-auto.

One option that is a little off the beaten path is the Browning BAR. This is not the BAR from WWI WWII, completely different gun. It will be more accurate than most of the semi autos mentioned and can be had in many different calibers, but this is more of a hunting gun than a SHTF gun.

B.A.R.

The Remington Model 7400 is another choice and is similar to the BAR in that it is a semi-auto designed for hunting and available in many calibers. The 7400 is not actually manufactured anymore and did have a reputation for jamming but many loved the gun and there are quite a few on the used market that can be had for $400-650.

Remington now makes a rifle called the model 750 which is an updated version of the model 7400 with an updated gas system and better reliability

Model 750

Another is the Model 7600 by Remington. Its what you get when you combine an 870 with a rifle. Its somewhat similar to the two mentioned above but a great deal more reliable because of the simplicity of the action. Its a good gun if you want to hunt in a state that doesn't allow you to hunt with semi-auto rifles like those mentioned above.

Model 7600